Assange (and he should only be known by the first three letters of his name), talks about a civil society and practices political anarchy to assuage his giant ego. He's not a terrorist, just a pencil-neck with a website. (and no morals)
"Mr_Canada" said I think you're wrong gonavy47, simply becuase even if Assange is killed and the fascists in America cheer with pride, the leaks will continue. He does have a point, he's trying to draw light to these critical events.
Even if every member of WIkiLeaks were slaughtered in a CIA action, leaks woudl continue from soemwhere else.
It's not about ego, because the guy with the ego could be dead and this machine will keep running.
What concerns us is that people may get killed if certain information that should be secret gets into the public domain. Ass--- isn't a terrorist, but what he is revealing may very help those who are, not that he cares.
"GreenTiger" said What concerns us is that people may get killed if certain information that should be secret gets into the public domain. Ass--- isn't a terrorist, but what he is revealing may very help those who are, not that he cares.
People keep repeating that mantra, despite the fact that it never has happened; and Wikileaks has teamed with the largest news organizations to vet the information to make sure it never happens.
News agencies, at least some of the Journalists who work for them, don't really care. They're constantly trying to put shit in the papers that can get people killed. It's why the military has members overseas specifically dedicated to reviewing material reporters and journalists collect over there. Because of personal bad experiences with journalists, I have a hard time trusting the morals and ethics of the larger news agencies as a whole.
And don't forget the butterfly effect either. If the newspaper says troops will be hunting down terrorists or criminals in a certain area, and someone important is there who now knows to get out of town, and later masterminds an attack 10 years down the road that kills 10 000 people, thats effectively a story that got 10 000 people killed. He may not have been captured or killed, but the release of a story wiped out the chance of his destruction entirely.
How did you get that out of what I said? Whats wrong with you to think we're all some big bad machine specifically employed to trick and deceive you? Are you that daft to think over 500 000 members of various government agencies are all specifically committed to hiding every scrap of truth about their respective departments from you, solely for kicks?
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
"Mr_Canada" said I think you're wrong gonavy47, simply becuase even if Assange is killed and the fascists in America cheer with pride, the leaks will continue. He does have a point, he's trying to draw light to these critical events.
Even if every member of WIkiLeaks were slaughtered in a CIA action, leaks woudl continue from soemwhere else.
It's not about ego, because the guy with the ego could be dead and this machine will keep running.
And don't forget the butterfly effect either. If the newspaper says troops will be hunting down terrorists or criminals in a certain area, and someone important is there who now knows to get out of town, and later masterminds an attack 10 years down the road that kills 10 000 people, thats effectively a story that got 10 000 people killed. He may not have been captured or killed, but the release of a story wiped out the chance of his destruction entirely.
Has anything like this happened, tho? Were military plans part of wikileaks, and were they leaked in a timely manner that would give the enemy advance warning? I mean if they're leaked after the operation, it's not going to serve as much of a warning to the bad guys, right? So this might just be a straw man you're building here.
Scape or Dr Caleb would know better than me if any military ops have been distributed by Assange that could endanger soldiers. If so, the media outlets leaking those should be charged with treason, and Assange with what, spying, being an enemy agent, what have you.
"Canadian_Mind" said How did you get that out of what I said? Whats wrong with you to think we're all some big bad machine specifically employed to trick and deceive you? Are you that daft to think over 500 000 members of various government agencies are all specifically committed to hiding every scrap of truth about their respective departments from you, solely for kicks?
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
This assumes a trust in government that most people should find uncomfortable, if not outright wrong. And it's not a left-wing or a right-wing thing to say so. In hindsight the ones who were completely skeptical of American motivations leading into the Iraq war were more-or-less fully vindicated while those of us who followed along with it should be ashamed of ourselves. If an Assange is needed to expose this, no matter how much of a filthy little creep he is in his own right, then so be it.
It's not tin-hattery to want full and accurate informaton on the table before critical decisions are made. And this cloak of official secrecy over practically everything involving military and foreign policy, accompanied by a nudge-nudge wink-wink "trust us" from the upper ranks of the government, is not good enough anymore. In fact it's downright dangerous. I'm not suggesting open publishing or broadcasting of troop movements or the names of intelligence agents. I'm suggesting that full examination of political motivations as well as private industry machinations and scheming behind the scenes should be fully exposed to the public before any more leaps into disaster like the Iraq war are allowed to happen. These things are too costly and too dangerous to simply sit back on the couch, watch dumb-ass TV, and assume that the politicians are doing the right thing because it's the right things to do. Clearly the last ten years, especially in the United States, should be an adequate eough example that the politicians and businessmen, more often than not, are acting in direct contradiction to the best interest of the public (and the world) at large.
"Thanos" said In hindsight the ones who were completely skeptical of American motivations leading into the Iraq war were more-or-less fully vindicated while those of us who followed along with it should be ashamed of ourselves.
Funny thing is Thanos, one of the leaks completely vindicated Bush's decision to go into Iraq. Some of the info from that leak paralleled some info I gave out about Iraq's chemical weapons program shortly after I started posting on here. The problem with Iraq was, "right place, wrong plan".
"Canadian_Mind" said How did you get that out of what I said? Whats wrong with you to think we're all some big bad machine specifically employed to trick and deceive you? Are you that daft to think over 500 000 members of various government agencies are all specifically committed to hiding every scrap of truth about their respective departments from you, solely for kicks?
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
You are wasting your time CM. Some people think that our government, the US, our military and police are the enemy.
They forget we are Canadians too. That we are interested in protecting our freedoms. So much so that we get off our arses to serve our country and our communities.
They won't get that however you try and explain it. They will still think that we are the enemy and Assange et al are our saviours.
Step away, disengage and expend your energy elsewhere.
I think you're wrong gonavy47, simply becuase even if Assange is killed and the fascists in America cheer with pride, the leaks will continue. He does have a point, he's trying to draw light to these critical events.
Even if every member of WIkiLeaks were slaughtered in a CIA action, leaks woudl continue from soemwhere else.
It's not about ego, because the guy with the ego could be dead and this machine will keep running.
P.S. Free Bradley Manning.
Spoken like a true communist.
What concerns us is that people may get killed if certain information that should be secret gets into the public domain. Ass--- isn't a terrorist, but what he is revealing may very help those who are, not that he cares.
People keep repeating that mantra, despite the fact that it never has happened; and Wikileaks has teamed with the largest news organizations to vet the information to make sure it never happens.
So, yes, he cares.
And don't forget the butterfly effect either. If the newspaper says troops will be hunting down terrorists or criminals in a certain area, and someone important is there who now knows to get out of town, and later masterminds an attack 10 years down the road that kills 10 000 people, thats effectively a story that got 10 000 people killed. He may not have been captured or killed, but the release of a story wiped out the chance of his destruction entirely.
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
I think you're wrong gonavy47, simply becuase even if Assange is killed and the fascists in America cheer with pride, the leaks will continue. He does have a point, he's trying to draw light to these critical events.
Even if every member of WIkiLeaks were slaughtered in a CIA action, leaks woudl continue from soemwhere else.
It's not about ego, because the guy with the ego could be dead and this machine will keep running.
P.S. Free Bradley Manning.
Go get 'em Tiger.
And don't forget the butterfly effect either. If the newspaper says troops will be hunting down terrorists or criminals in a certain area, and someone important is there who now knows to get out of town, and later masterminds an attack 10 years down the road that kills 10 000 people, thats effectively a story that got 10 000 people killed. He may not have been captured or killed, but the release of a story wiped out the chance of his destruction entirely.
Has anything like this happened, tho? Were military plans part of wikileaks, and were they leaked in a timely manner that would give the enemy advance warning? I mean if they're leaked after the operation, it's not going to serve as much of a warning to the bad guys, right? So this might just be a straw man you're building here.
Scape or Dr Caleb would know better than me if any military ops have been distributed by Assange that could endanger soldiers. If so, the media outlets leaking those should be charged with treason, and Assange with what, spying, being an enemy agent, what have you.
How did you get that out of what I said? Whats wrong with you to think we're all some big bad machine specifically employed to trick and deceive you? Are you that daft to think over 500 000 members of various government agencies are all specifically committed to hiding every scrap of truth about their respective departments from you, solely for kicks?
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
This assumes a trust in government that most people should find uncomfortable, if not outright wrong. And it's not a left-wing or a right-wing thing to say so. In hindsight the ones who were completely skeptical of American motivations leading into the Iraq war were more-or-less fully vindicated while those of us who followed along with it should be ashamed of ourselves. If an Assange is needed to expose this, no matter how much of a filthy little creep he is in his own right, then so be it.
It's not tin-hattery to want full and accurate informaton on the table before critical decisions are made. And this cloak of official secrecy over practically everything involving military and foreign policy, accompanied by a nudge-nudge wink-wink "trust us" from the upper ranks of the government, is not good enough anymore. In fact it's downright dangerous. I'm not suggesting open publishing or broadcasting of troop movements or the names of intelligence agents. I'm suggesting that full examination of political motivations as well as private industry machinations and scheming behind the scenes should be fully exposed to the public before any more leaps into disaster like the Iraq war are allowed to happen. These things are too costly and too dangerous to simply sit back on the couch, watch dumb-ass TV, and assume that the politicians are doing the right thing because it's the right things to do. Clearly the last ten years, especially in the United States, should be an adequate eough example that the politicians and businessmen, more often than not, are acting in direct contradiction to the best interest of the public (and the world) at large.
In hindsight the ones who were completely skeptical of American motivations leading into the Iraq war were more-or-less fully vindicated while those of us who followed along with it should be ashamed of ourselves.
Funny thing is Thanos, one of the leaks completely vindicated Bush's decision to go into Iraq. Some of the info from that leak paralleled some info I gave out about Iraq's chemical weapons program shortly after I started posting on here.
The problem with Iraq was, "right place, wrong plan".
How did you get that out of what I said? Whats wrong with you to think we're all some big bad machine specifically employed to trick and deceive you? Are you that daft to think over 500 000 members of various government agencies are all specifically committed to hiding every scrap of truth about their respective departments from you, solely for kicks?
There are good reasons why the majority of secrets are secrets. It's not like we're making up that the people we call enemies are actually our enemies. If no one there was our enemy, we wouldn't be there, plain and simple.
You are wasting your time CM. Some people think that our government, the US, our military and police are the enemy.
They forget we are Canadians too. That we are interested in protecting our freedoms. So much so that we get off our arses to serve our country and our communities.
They won't get that however you try and explain it. They will still think that we are the enemy and Assange et al are our saviours.
Step away, disengage and expend your energy elsewhere.