Axing F-35 deal would cause economic damage: Tories

So in other words, we were blackmailed into buying these aircraft? Lovely.

I always laugh my ass off when liberals trying to argue about military spending. Aren't they the ones always putting millions in random military projects that we never end up buying anyways. Aren't they also the ones that constantly sell of our military equipment for half the price we bought it for. Leaving us with nothing to show for the other half.

No. Mulroney was the guy who sold the Chinooks. I don't recall the Libs selling anything nor putting money in random projects. There is a long list of their purchases and it includes things like LAV-IIIs, Griffons, Subs, and Cyclone helos. Lots here will say it wasn't enough but so far Harper hasn't done anything better.

Are there any former generals in the liberal party helping them develop their defense policy?

No. Mulroney was the guy who sold the Chinooks. I don't recall the Libs selling anything nor putting money in random projects. There is a long list of their purchases and it includes things like LAV-IIIs, Griffons, Subs, and Cyclone helos. Lots here will say it wasn't enough but so far Harper hasn't done anything better.
And Chretien scrapped the EH-101 contract so he could help fund the development of the F-35. Ironic huh?

The other side of the coin is, despite the possible $18-19 billion dollar price tag, Canadian companies could see $10 billion of that come back to them in the way of service contracts and spare parts production.
There's already 1 Canadian company that's pretty much guaranteed $1 billion in revenues from the F-35 contract over 10 years.

I wouldn't be bragging about the Victoria subs (still not fully operational ten years later), or the Cyclones (how many delivery dates has Sikorsky missed?).

Well the subs brought our undersea warfare up from 0. Granted they aren't top notch but did Mulroney buy any of the nuclear subs he promised? Harper sure won't. They are very expensive items not discounting NIMBY sentiment. Lots here have suggested the German u212 and I think they would be an excellent buy too. However, my point was countering the apparent random and wastefullness of the Liberal purchases.

Sikorsky missing deadlines is quite frankly their fuck-up not the Liberals and there is no reason to believe the original purchase would have fared better and no reason to believe the F35s won't see a similar problem. Quite frankly its up to the current government to sue Sikorsky for breech of contract as they are the only ones with standing to do so.

Our undersea warfare capability wasn't 0 before the Victoria class (we had three functioning Oberons). It was 0 after they were bought. For the longest time they couldn't even fire torpedos. One burnt out due to below standard wiring, and won't be repaired until 2012 at the earliest.

Their "Canadization" process was in someways a downgrade from what they were capable of in RN service.

We should have purchased eight or so Trafalgar class subs.



Agreed, I would like to see Sikorsky sued.

But that won't get us our helicopters any faster, and if the EH-101 had gone on, we would have had our helicopters well before now. Even if there were contractor screw ups.

That being said I'm not a fan of the '101. The Cormorants have a issue with cracking rotor hubs that can't seem to be solved.

Nuclear Subs would be fantastic, unfortunately the navy has to cut corners on maintenance due to lack of personnel and money, and who in the hell would sail a nuclear sub when you know that the proper maintenance hasnt been done, or who would let us into their harbours?

Wouldn't be an issue if the government would quit cheap skating the Department of National Defence.

Wouldn't be an issue if the government would quit cheap skating the Department of National Defence.


Wouldnt be an issue if we the Canadian people were'nt entitled to their entitlments

Russia, China and North Korea immediately come to mind...

Nuclear subs would be great, but they would cost a fortune. Let's not forget that the infrastructure cost to operate them would be huge as well, and as Derby said, NIMBY would ensure that no existing navy base could be their home port, which means constructing another base somewhere in the middle of nowhere (which of course some environmentalists would no doubt protest).

No, our best bet is to adopt AIP subs (the U212 for example) when we decide to replace the Victorias. I'd love something Canadian designed/built, but I can't see the government sinking the billions of dollars necessary to develop something like that here. Even if one gov't was brave enough to do so, odds are the opposite side of the political spectrum would politicize it and then cancel it when they got into power (Diefenbaker & the Arrow, Chretien & the EH-101).

I'd port them in Esquimalt and Halifax. Those with NIMBY problems can pack up and relocate.