 Police get special arrest powers for duration of G20Law & Order | 206584 hits | Jun 25 7:50 am | Posted by: Guy_Fawkes Commentsview comments in forum You need to be a member of CKA and be logged into the site, to comment on news. |
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It sure is tough being a Liberal these days...
That's actually not true. You can be arrested anytime, anywhere for failure to identify yourself. There is no "right" not to identify yourself to a peace officer.
Hopefully this is the last of these types of events we see here in Canada for a long time. They're a waste of money and nothing but a huge hassle for anyone close by.
In the article, the Toronto Police Chief says:
That's actually not true. You can be arrested anytime, anywhere for failure to identify yourself. There is no "right" not to identify yourself to a peace officer.
Hopefully this is the last of these types of events we see here in Canada for a long time. They're a waste of money and nothing but a huge hassle for anyone close by.
Since when? I've never seen a charge in the criminal code for 'failure to produce papers'.
In the article, the Toronto Police Chief says:
That's actually not true. You can be arrested anytime, anywhere for failure to identify yourself. There is no "right" not to identify yourself to a peace officer.
Hopefully this is the last of these types of events we see here in Canada for a long time. They're a waste of money and nothing but a huge hassle for anyone close by.
Since when? I've never seen a charge in the criminal code for 'failure to produce papers'.
failure to produce identification is a chargeable offense
Since when? I've never seen a charge in the criminal code for 'failure to produce papers'.
I'm going back a-ways here, but if I recall correctly, if you are being detained by a peace officer, and if that peace officer reasonably suspects your involvement in some crimme, and you fail to identify yourself, you can be arrested until such time as the officer can determine your identity. It's not a crime not to produce ID, but a peace officer may arrest you until such time as he can identify you.
This is true in all of Canada and in some US states.
Here is the Criminal Code wording:
(a) a person who has committed an indictable offence or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes has committed or is about to commit an indictable offence;
(b) a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence; or
(c) a person in respect of whom he has reasonable grounds to believe that a warrant of arrest or committal, in any form set out in Part XXVIII in relation thereto, is in force within the territorial jurisdiction in which the person is found.
Limitation
(2) A peace officer shall not arrest a person without warrant for
(a) an indictable offence mentioned in section 553,
(b) an offence for which the person may be prosecuted by indictment or for which he is punishable on summary conviction, or
(c) an offence punishable on summary conviction,
in any case where
(d) he believes on reasonable grounds that the public interest, having regard to all the circumstances including the need to
(i) establish the identity of the person,
(ii) secure or preserve evidence of or relating to the offence, or
(iii) prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of another offence,
may be satisfied without so arresting the person, and
(e) he has no reasonable grounds to believe that, if he does not so arrest the person, the person will fail to attend court in order to be dealt with according to law.
failure to produce identification is a chargeable offense
In the Guide To Toronto Police Services, that they give to new immigrants it says:
In general you are under no obligation to identify yourself to a police officer. However, there are exceptions
including:
if you are driving a car,
if you have committed a provincial offence such as...
a liquor, trespassing or driving offence.
In these circumstances simply cooperate with the officer and answer the questions to the best of your ability.
If the police suspect that you have committed an offence or are acting suspiciously they will want to know who you are.
There are several reasons for telling the police who you are:
If the police are looking for someone else you may avoid being arrested by showing that you are not that person.
If the police think that you have committed an offence and you do not tell them who you are they may arrest you and hold you at a police station until they find out who you are.
If the police think you have committed a minor offence and you identify yourself to their satisfaction they may give you a ticket or a notice advising you when to appear in court rather than arresting you.
Since when? I've never seen a charge in the criminal code for 'failure to produce papers'.
I'm going back a-ways here, but if I recall correctly, if you are being detained by a peace officer, and if that peace officer reasonably suspects your involvement in some crimme, and you fail to identify yourself, you can be arrested until such time as the officer can determine your identity. It's not a crime not to produce ID, but a peace officer may arrest you until such time as he can identify you.
This is true in all of Canada and in some US states.
Here is the Criminal Code wording:
(a) a person who has committed an indictable offence or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes has committed or is about to commit an indictable offence;
(b) a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence; or
(c) a person in respect of whom he has reasonable grounds to believe that a warrant of arrest or committal, in any form set out in Part XXVIII in relation thereto, is in force within the territorial jurisdiction in which the person is found.
Limitation
(2) A peace officer shall not arrest a person without warrant for
(a) an indictable offence mentioned in section 553,
(b) an offence for which the person may be prosecuted by indictment or for which he is punishable on summary conviction, or
(c) an offence punishable on summary conviction,
in any case where
(d) he believes on reasonable grounds that the public interest, having regard to all the circumstances including the need to
(i) establish the identity of the person,
(ii) secure or preserve evidence of or relating to the offence, or
(iii) prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of another offence,
may be satisfied without so arresting the person, and
(e) he has no reasonable grounds to believe that, if he does not so arrest the person, the person will fail to attend court in order to be dealt with according to law.
Right. Read section 2 again. "shall not arrest a person without warrant" Under section 1, the person must first be under the suspicion of committing an offence, or likely to commit an offence in section 1, and then must be asked for ID and must fail to produce it. Under section 2, they must first have a warrant for arrest.
Failure to produce ID is not a criminal offence, and being detained for that is unconstitutional.
You can be arrested anytime, anywhere for failure to identify yourself. There is no "right" not to identify yourself to a peace officer.
So, going back here, this is entirely false. I do not have to produce ID, unless I am under arrest. I have a right to say, under section 8 of the Constitution, to an officer that asks me for ID out of the blue "No.". I have the right to walk down the street and to not identify myself upon demand.
failure to produce identification is a chargeable offense
Only to those who are ignorant of their rights.
So, going back here, this is entirely false. I do not have to produce ID, unless I am under arrest. I have a right to say, under section 8 of the Constitution, to an officer that asks me for ID out of the blue "No.". I have the right to walk down the street and to not identify myself upon demand.
Great--you stick with that one when requested to present identification to a cop.
You are correct, though--my original post was based on the presumption that, if a cop asks for your ID, then he suspects you of being involved in a crime. I can't imagine why else a cop would ask for ID. But if indeed the cop does not suspect you of being involved in a crime, you can rightfully refuse.
To be clear though, if the cop suspects you of being involved in a crime and you can't/refuse to produce identification, you can be placed under arrest.
So not entirely false--just an untstated presumption. My bad.
failure to produce identification is a chargeable offense
Only to those who are ignorant of their rights.
not really, how ever you want to look at it, its the same shit
Im not arresting you cause you don't have id, its cause i think your going to commit a crime, or you look suspicious, please give me a break, a spade is a spade
how's the view from that high horse??
You also have the right to evade an unlawful arrest.
In the US you do, I'm not so sure about Canada, though.
We just had a case of a flight to evade an unlawful arrest...
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story. ... 5&catid=29
The ex-chief, identified by the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department as Reuben Meeks, pursued a Mustang being driven erratically and at speeds up to 80 mph in the area of Highway 99 near 47th Avenue around 11 a.m., according to Sgt. Norm Leong with the Sacramento Police Department.
Meeks, 47, activated the unmarked unit's flashing police lights and siren but the Mustang's 27-year-old driver continued on at a high rate of speed, said Leong. That driver eventually exited the highway at Howe Avenue and crashed into the street median at College Town Drive and Hornet Drive.
The "undercover" officer drove up, pulled the Mustang's driver out of the car and onto the ground, Leong said. There was a tussle, Leong said, and when a paramedic in a passing ambulance stopped, the officer requested soft restraints to handcuff the driver. The officer asked witnesses to call Sacramento police, Leong said.
When officers arrived, Leong said they learned the "undercover" officer was the former police chief. Both Meeks and the Mustang's driver were questioned and released.
The car being used by Meeks was a sheriff's department vehicle leased by the Rancho Cordova Police Department, which contracts with the sheriff's department for police staffing.
Leong said his department will present its investigation to the Sacramento County district attorney's office and it will be up to the D.A. to determine whether charges will be filed.
Great--you stick with that one when requested to present identification to a cop.
You are correct, though--my original post was based on the presumption that, if a cop asks for your ID, then he suspects you of being involved in a crime. I can't imagine why else a cop would ask for ID. But if indeed the cop does not suspect you of being involved in a crime, you can rightfully refuse.
To be clear though, if the cop suspects you of being involved in a crime and you can't/refuse to produce identification, you can be placed under arrest.
So not entirely false--just an untstated presumption. My bad.
Assumption notwithstanding, I would still refuse identification and detention unless placed under arrest. In which case, it's my full and proper name, and the word 'lawyer'. And not one word more.
Like has been mentioned here recently, in all history it's the constabulary that has been the most corrupt and unless you and I keep them on their toes, they can fall into the bad habits again. I am not subject to the whims of a cop that may or may not be acting in good faith. Next thing you know, they'll be going to protests impersonating protesters, throwing rocks and giving their comrades the excuse to test the hydro projectiles and taser mines to justify the money spent on overtime.
I have been the target of one cop's unhealthy attention, and I still don't know what I did to arouse his anger. But it forced me to learn what my rights are, and what his were. And I can't be bullied by a badge ever again.
not really, how ever you want to look at it, its the same shit
Im not arresting you cause you don't have id, its cause i think your going to commit a crime, or you look suspicious, please give me a break, a spade is a spade
how's the view from that high horse??
It's not the same shit. I cannot be arrested for failure to identify myself. I cannot be arrested because a cop decides I'm arbitrarily 'suspicious'. That is my right. If you choose to give up that right, I feel sorry for you. A lot of our ancestors died protecting our right against unlawful detention and arrest, search and seizure, so I do not give them up easily.
How's the 4 X 8 X 10 concrete room you willingly allow yourself to be put into? Be a good little sheep, and bleat on their command.