Pilots loved AVRO's ill-fated Jetliner

It is this plane, not the Arrow that was the future of Avro. It had far superior marketability and development potential and the revenues generated would have secured Avro for years so they could develop better and newer models.

I'm always stunned at how foolsih we were back in the 50s. Giving up on these two amazing projects were the height of stupidity. DO you think any other country would ever scrap something like either of these two projects? No, other countries would have sold them and made a bloody fortune.

Or better yet, built them here and become a world header.

Still though.. I do get tired of this contant remembering with regret, as if we can never do anything good because of it. We have aerospace companies that are world class and we can do so much more. We don't lack the skills but we definately lack the vision and guts to that that chance.

I think the big problem in Canada is that no one is ever in it for the long haul.

Too many Canadian inventors develop something great, then wait until they can sell it to another company (almost always a foreign multi-national) for about $50 million, then live the easy life.

That's because Canada has the largest amount of pot smokers in all the developed nations... we have a short attention span. We think up amazing ideas and great inventions, yet just don't have the motivation to do anything with it by the time we think of something else.

Agreed somewhat. Avro is long gone and it was tragic, but we shouldn't dwell on it too much. In Aerospace we are no slouches however. Bombardier is doing quite well, not only with Aircraft, but also Rail which, IMO, makes it a better Heavy Industry player than Avro ever was. Bombardier probably won't be building a leading edge Fighter anytime soon(excepting another WW), but they are capable and may one day be called upon to do just that.

I agree that Bombardier are world class, but it's just not the same class as say, Embraer.
Bombardier only makes a handfull of very pricy business jets for the Liberal government.
Embraer makes a similar line AND a comercial line AND a defence line.
That's what I want to see Canada doing and I'm damned sure we can surpass Brasil.

Admitidly, we face stronger competition with the US but we already subsidize Bombardier, and Pratt & Whitney and whoever else chooses to stay in Canada.

Well, we may be bit players in the military and commercial aircraft industry, but we are one of the leading manufacturers of personal aircraft. But I have to agree with RR, the only thing we have a shortage of to jump into those markets with both feet is, the vision and the will.

Agreed.

Ahhh, you can’t even maintain a normal conversation with a cheap partisan crack can you?

Embraer is our vision for what Bombardier should be? Give your head a shake man.

Embraer is not much more of a defence player than Bombardier was. The 'military' products they build are propeller ground attack aircraft, which in this day and age would last about 30 seconds after a real plane engaged it. They are so popular that only Brazil and Columbia use them. Sure they provide parts for the AMX, but that's about it. And the only reason Embraer even makes them is because of its history as a government-owned company (it was privatized in 1994) to help provide Brazil with Brazilian made planes.

Bombardier, on the other hand, has always been an independent corporation, which despite the subsidies the government offers (which it does to all major Canadian corporations – like oil companies, car companies, etc) has to answer to its shareholders. If it was profitable for them to be in the defence industry, I’m sure they would be, especially given that their aerospace division accounts for almost half of their annual revenues. That was why they built regional jets in the first place, because they realized that Boeing, Airbus and other aircraft manufacturers had ignored that market.

And to say that Bombardier only makes a few “very pricy business jets” is bullshit and you know it. Bombardier has in the past been the 3rd largest aircraft manufacturer in the world (right after Boeing and Airbus). Embraer may have surpassed it recently, but only just barely. Bombardier’s line of Dash 8s (over 1000 built), CRJs (over 1000 built) are extremely popular with airlines around the world. And if they go ahead and build the C-series, they will begin competing with Boeing and Airbus, which will likely vault them past Embraer again.

And yes, if we were willing to pay the price to have a better aerospace defence industry than Brazil, we could. However, given our government’s history of short changing defence contractors (promising to buy something then cancelling; the Arrow, the EH-101, the frigate program – should have 18 not 12, Polar 8 icebreaker, nuclear subs, etc), what’s the point? Our shipbuilding industry is a perfect example. Instead of a steady stream of business, past governments have built ships in dribs and drabs, not allowing them to maintain profitability. As such, many have closed or drastically scaled back to the point that to build new ships here (like the JSS) would cost more than it would to buy from someone else.
Bombardier far more world class than Embraer.