[Newsbot]

Title: Liberals vow to cancel stealth fighter deal, hold competition to replace CF-18s
Category: Political
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2010-10-27 18:03:03
Canadian

[saturn_656]

$1:

Angus Watt, the retired general who shepherded the F-35 program as the chief of air staff, said Ignatieff's threat is somewhat hollow, because the federal government has yet to sign a formal contract. Last summer it only signalled its intention to buy the aircraft.

Ottawa doesn't have to sign on the dotted line or pony up any cash for three or four years.

Much ado about nothing then?

Iggy had better find something else to bitch about.

$1:

However, Prime Minister Stephen Harper blasted Ignatieff for jeopardizing the lives of air force personnel and jobs in Canada's aerospace industry.

"Let me tell you about the responsibilities we've got here," Harper told the Commons.

"We've got a responsibility to replace fighter aircraft and not play politics with the lives of our men and women in uniform. We've got a responsibility . . . to make sure we protect the people, the men and women, who work in that (aerospace) industry against the irresponsible behaviour of this leader of the Opposition."

Harper +1.

[1Peg]

$1:

But he said the last straw was the scathing "wake-up call" issued Tuesday by Auditor General Sheila Fraser on the Harper government's botched purchase of military helicopters.

It was the Liberals that sent Canadians to Afghanistan in little jeeps to be blown up by roadside bombs and it was the liberals that botched deals for helicopters for years...

Hey Iffy... We needed these fucking choppers you fuckhead...

[QBall]

Liberal military procurement. There's an oxymoron if there ever was one. Just another reason to keep Iggy and the Boneheads from gaining power. Cretien fucked the military over for years. Do we really want to go back to those years?

[EyeBrock]

I dunno, they best way to sort this out, and it is all very silly, is re-do the whole procurement thing and have a competition.

It's plain to me that the F35 will be the bit of kit that will see us ok for 30 years. The F18E will see us ok for 10 at best. Maybe that's all we need?

Pull the rug from under the Libs who are making this purely political instead of a military issue, have a new competition.

It's funny how Iggy isn't mentioning that the Libs got us into this program in 2001.

[ShepherdsDog]

..sort of like how they don't like to mention they were the ones to send Canadian troops to Afghanistan.

[EyeBrock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

..sort of like how they don't like to mention they were the ones to send Canadian troops to Afghanistan.

Really? I thought it was the Reformacons? I'll confirm that with a wiki.....

[ShepherdsDog]

And the Lord said unto Adam , "You must not google of this tree of Wiki. For if you google of it and only it, your fellow posters will know you for a lazy fool."

[Canadian_Mind]

Qball, you're sadly mistaken if you think the Liberals are the only party to have fucked the military over the past 50 years, and if you think the COnservatives were the only ones to provide the miltiary with kit over the past 50 years.

As for the F-35 program, we committed 500 million to the program on the understanding that it would provide Canadian industry with atleast that much money in benifits. There was no commitment or even intent to purchase. The Americans were looking for partners to share development costs (wisely), and we took the bait with the promise of industrial benifits.

EB - While the F-35 looks to have the best and most technologically advanced aspects on paper, I would not put my money on it until it's been atleast proven in competition. It could very well prove to be a lemon. I don't know if you are a truck guy or a car guy, but here is an autmotive example: I wouldn't be buying the latest 400hp, 800ft-lb torque Ford and Chevy Deisel engines in their 2011 Heavy truck models until they've been on the road for a few years to prove the engines wont rip themselves, or the trucks they power, to bloody shreds. I'd rather buy a 5 year old truck and run it for a few years while I wait for the current model years to show it's true colours and work all it's bugs out first, then trade-in.

[EyeBrock]

Charlie-Mike.

You have valid points and that's why I think that an open competition to revisit this is the way to go. Otherwise we won't be getting ANY aircraft for another 15 years while the politicians bicker. EH101 anybody?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Charlie-Mike.

You have valid points and that's why I think that an open competition to revisit this is the way to go. Otherwise we won't be getting ANY aircraft for another 15 years while the politicians bicker. EH101 anybody?

EH-101? Hell that got cancelled so we could help fund the development of the F-35.
Of course if the fuckwit Iffy hadn't been out of country for all those years he might actually have an understanding of his party's recent past history.

[Regina]

Iggy propaganda..... trying to be relevant.

[bootlegga]

1Peg 1Peg:

$1:

But he said the last straw was the scathing "wake-up call" issued Tuesday by Auditor General Sheila Fraser on the Harper government's botched purchase of military helicopters.

It was the Liberals that sent Canadians to Afghanistan in little jeeps to be blown up by roadside bombs and it was the liberals that botched deals for helicopters for years...

Hey Iffy... We needed these fucking choppers you fuckhead...

Sure we needed them. But the CF brass lowballed the cost estimates to make sure they'd get the CH-47F, and because of the sole-sourcing and all the modifications and add-ons, the price almost doubled.

If you don't find spending $5+ billion more than expected shocking, you've got your partisan blinders on.

$1:

Ms. Fraser’s office revealed Tuesday that the price tag for two types of helicopters being purchased for the military has doubled to $11-billion. It found that the Department of Defence lowballed estimates when seeking approval, even when it knew that planned design changes would hike costs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1773452/

$1:

Auditor General Sheila Fraser had mostly positive findings reported in her 2010 Fall Report. However, she did shoot down the National Defence’s handling of its Chinook and Cyclone military helicopters acquisitions.

The report follows the Ontario Auditor General’s report chiding hospitals’ handling of consultants.

“National Defence did not follow its own rules in managing and overseeing the acquisition projects. We identified several gaps with respect to the completeness of information presented to decision-makers as well as approvals and oversight by senior boards at key decision points,” said Fraser at today’s press conference.

“It is our conclusion that the contract award process was not fair, open and transparent to potential suppliers.”

Fraser went on to say, “We also found that National Defence underestimated and understated the complexity and developmental nature of the helicopters it intended to buy. The substantial modifications to the basic models, resulted in significant cost increases and project delays.”

“After lengthy delays and significant cost increases, National Defence still has not completely estimated what it will cost to operate these helicopters. Without this costing information and sufficient funds, National Defence may have to curtail planned training and operations. This is cause for concern.”

http://www.businessreviewcanada.ca/tags ... r-purchase

Maybe that's why there isn't money for three JSS ships, only two. Or why we can't afford to even draw up plans to replace our nearly 40 year old destroyers. Or why the program to

Well, we've seen umpteen examples of Conservative outrage over $2 billion for the LGR and $500 million for sponsorship, so the rest of us will kindly sit back and wait for similar outrage over helicopter procurement that cost Canada $5.5 BILLION more than it was supposed to...

[EyeBrock]

Regina Regina:

Iggy propaganda..... trying to be relevant.

Very true, but the message is gaining resonance. If Steve and the Politburo don't come up with a decent political counter message, we'll still be flying the current CF18's in 20 years.

It's a pity defence procurement is so politically loaded in Canada but it's been this way since the Ross Rifle. If the Tories had been cleverer they would have ensured this procurement was water-tight and transparent. It's neither at the moment.

Personally I believe the F35 is the way to go but perception is everything and the Tories are losing the propaganda war on this one.

[bootlegga]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

EH-101? Hell that got cancelled so we could help fund the development of the F-35.
Of course if the fuckwit Iffy hadn't been out of country for all those years he might actually have an understanding of his party's recent past history.

That's not totally accurate.


Both were done by the Liberals yes, but it wasn't a case of one or the other. The EH-101s were cancelled in 1993 as part of Chretiens promise to eliminate spending and get rid of a 'Cadillac' program started by the Conservatives, while the F-35 program investment was years later and designed to help Canadian aerospace companies get a piece of the biggest aircraft procurement program since the 1980s.