Let me give you a quote from an actual Turk about this situation.
Talking about this issue based on headlines of newspapers and extrapolations made along personal convictions achieves little. Lets talk about the content.
First, the precise content of the constitutional amendments can be found in the following link for interested readers. (The document has an introduction in first 8 pages. Then, from page 9 to 31, you will find the full content the old version of the articles (left column) together with the proposed amendments (right column). )
http://www.setav.org/Ups/dosya/44512.pdfAs any reader of these amendments can easily understand, the mentioned amendments serve no whatsoever Islamic agenda. They serve for the further democratization of the country.
The most controversial amendments were those changing the structures of Supreme Court and Supreme Council of Judges and Public Prosecutors. Yet, the mentioned amendments will not change anything except improving the democratic representation of judicial members in mentioned bodies.
Overall, the amendments represent an important step to convert Turkey from a country under the law of autocratic “supremes” to a country under the supremacy of democratic law. And this crystal clear observation cannot be ignored by a simple reference to the islamist roots of PM Erdogan.
Igor Antunov Igor Antunov:
Maybe the Turkish majority want an Islamic country.
No They do not. Spectrum of political beliefs of Turkish people has been more or less as follows in past two decades:
~5% - Communists, socialists, ultra-left
~20% - Center Left
~50%- Center Right & Liberals
~10%- Islamists
~10% - Turkish nationalists
~5% - Kurdish nationalists.
Erdogan’s AKP achieved 47% support in 2007 general elections and now 58% support in yesterday’s referendum. You do the math and then make your own conclusions.
Potemkin Potemkin:
Those Turkish Islamists are cleverer than I thought they were. They are displaying almost Persian or British levels of deviousness and cunning.
In 2002, when AKP was newly established and secured parliamentary majority in same year’s elections with the support of reactionary electorate who fed up with previous governments corruption and incompetence, many people including myself had suspicious about this new party and its leader. But, now, we have the track record of AKP government in past 8 years. I see no whatsoever sign of Islamist motive or agenda in that 8 years long record.
Erdogan in 2002 promised that his party will be the voice of center of political spectrum and he has largely honored his promise in past 8 years. That is why he is still in government and I guarantee you (given the incompetence of Turkey’s opposition parties, good for nothing but yearning for the old and happy days of corrupt Turkey, shows no sign of changing themselves) he shall win 2011 general elections with overwhelming support of the mainstream.
The Immortal Goon The Immortal Goon:
The coups tend to happen when a party trying to overthrow secularism comes in to power. I always kind of liked the Turkish military for that reason.
Pfft.
“Secularism in danger” was just one of the pretexts (alongside “communists on our doorsteps” and “national unity under threat”) for legitimizing coups, though secularism in Turkey was/is not in a danger at all.
And, before you deepen your love for Turkish military, let me list the main “accomplishments” of the 3 years long military rule following 1980 coup d’état:
- 1 million 683 thousand people were branded as “politically deviant” in state's records.
- Among them, 650,000 people were arrested with the suspicion of “political crimes”.
- 230,000 people were prosecuted in courts for political crimes.
- Prosecutors asked capital punishment for ~7,000 people.
- Courts decided for 517 death penalty.
- 50 people (two of them were minors) were excecuted.
- 299 people died in prisons and detention centers under suspicious circumstances.
- Among them, 171 deaths so far were proved to be as a result of torture.
- 30 thousand public servants (including high profile judges, university professors, etc) were fired from their jobs because they were belived to be “politically devinant”
- 30,000 people fled from the country to avoid persecution.
- 14,000 people were banished from citizenship of Turkey.
- 23,677 associations, NGOs, unions, guilds etc. were closed down.
- Sale and distrubution of 937 movies were banned.
- 400 columnists were prosecuted. 31 of them were prisoned.
Plaro Plaro:
The military it appears was a sect of liberalism that had an influence on Turkish society and now with their power limited, it will be interesting to see what will unfold hereafter.
Dude. What have you been drinking? I want of the same.
The truth is the ideological connection between Turkish liberals and the Army was broken in 1913 and this separation later turned into mutual grudge between Liberals and increasingly-Jacobin army with 1960 coup d’etat.
Thita Thita:
You are confusing secular with democratic. The military are indeed hard-line secularists as well as being undemocratic and have monopolized economic and political power for the past several decades. Economic growth and the concomitant rise of a middle class is challenging the military establishment and it is that middle class that has made possible Erdogan's rise to power.
QFT.
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/view ... 2&t=123075
CKA Uber 
Active Member 
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