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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:18 am
 


Title: OPINION: JournoList Erodes Media Prestige
Category: Political
Posted By: ManifestDestiny
Date: 2010-07-28 04:55:07


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:18 am
 


How funny is it when everyone crys about Fox news and the vast right wing conspiracy. Truth be told the main stream media is no longer doing its job they are a pack of liars and left wing nut jobs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:26 am
 


$1:
The funniest thing about this expose of JournoList was witnessing journalists say it was unfair to leak these e-mails when reporters had an "expectation of privacy." More than 90,000 pages of secret documents on Afghanistan have been leaked and journalists are tripping over one another in a mad stampede to cover the story. Everyone should laugh heartily at leak-devouring journalists getting a fistful of their own bitter pills.


Amen to that! [B-o]


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:46 am
 


ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:
How funny is it when everyone crys about Fox news and the vast right wing conspiracy. Truth be told the main stream media is no longer doing its job they are a pack of liars and left wing nut jobs.


So the far right keeps saying.

We have two major national newspapers in Canada. One is avowedly right-wing, the other maybe a tad left of centre. The top tenm radio "news" programs are virtually all far right demagogues, and the top-rated cable news network in North America is also shamelessly partisan on the right.

Fine--that's the free market and all that. But it's a bit much to then have people come and whine about how there's just not enough Glenn Beck ahnd Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn out there. That we need more Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlsons and Michelle Malkins adn Sarah Palins.

Did jounalist veer out of bounds? Perhaps. But then there's Breitbart's infamous editing of the Sherrod video.

Your perception that the media are left-wing is simply because you are not wise enough to account for the fact that your own preconceptions adn biases colour your view.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:50 am
 


The bottom line is that as the words between leftists and conservatives become more shrill, and as the propaganda becomes more intense, the likelyhood of the discussion ending and the fighting beginning becomes more and more possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:55 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:
How funny is it when everyone crys about Fox news and the vast right wing conspiracy. Truth be told the main stream media is no longer doing its job they are a pack of liars and left wing nut jobs.


So the far right keeps saying.

We have two major national newspapers in Canada. One is avowedly right-wing, the other maybe a tad left of centre. The top tenm radio "news" programs are virtually all far right demagogues, and the top-rated cable news network in North America is also shamelessly partisan on the right.

Fine--that's the free market and all that. But it's a bit much to then have people come and whine about how there's just not enough Glenn Beck ahnd Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn out there. That we need more Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlsons and Michelle Malkins adn Sarah Palins.

Did jounalist veer out of bounds? Perhaps. But then there's Breitbart's infamous editing of the Sherrod video.

Your perception that the media are left-wing is simply because you are not wise enough to account for the fact that your own preconceptions adn biases colour your view.



To see the Globe and Mail as left of center (I assume you meant the Globe and Mail) the viewer has to be pretty far right themselves. They are small c conservative. But I guess anybody that's not full on flaming neocon nutbar these days is seen as left.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:58 am
 


Andy, just so you know, a 'neo-con' is not a real conservative. Neo-cons pose as conservatives all while pursuing their own authoritarian and big-government fantasies and you'll find that may conservatives, like myself, are as fond of these people as are you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:20 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The bottom line is that as the words between leftists and conservatives become more shrill, and as the propaganda becomes more intense, the likelyhood of the discussion ending and the fighting beginning becomes more and more possible.


+1. They both take themselves way too seriously. If they focused instead on bettering the community instead of their own personal money/power base then both extremes of rhetoric would fade.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:25 am
 


andyt andyt:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:
How funny is it when everyone crys about Fox news and the vast right wing conspiracy. Truth be told the main stream media is no longer doing its job they are a pack of liars and left wing nut jobs.


So the far right keeps saying.

We have two major national newspapers in Canada. One is avowedly right-wing, the other maybe a tad left of centre. The top tenm radio "news" programs are virtually all far right demagogues, and the top-rated cable news network in North America is also shamelessly partisan on the right.

Fine--that's the free market and all that. But it's a bit much to then have people come and whine about how there's just not enough Glenn Beck ahnd Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn out there. That we need more Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlsons and Michelle Malkins adn Sarah Palins.

Did jounalist veer out of bounds? Perhaps. But then there's Breitbart's infamous editing of the Sherrod video.

Your perception that the media are left-wing is simply because you are not wise enough to account for the fact that your own preconceptions adn biases colour your view.



To see the Globe and Mail as left of center (I assume you meant the Globe and Mail) the viewer has to be pretty far right themselves. They are small c conservative. But I guess anybody that's not full on flaming neocon nutbar these days is seen as left.



I don't see the Globe as either left or right, just mostly wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:29 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Andy, just so you know, a 'neo-con' is not a real conservative. Neo-cons pose as conservatives all while pursuing their own authoritarian and big-government fantasies and you'll find that may conservatives, like myself, are as fond of these people as are you.


So what's the real conservative manifesto?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:37 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:
How funny is it when everyone crys about Fox news and the vast right wing conspiracy. Truth be told the main stream media is no longer doing its job they are a pack of liars and left wing nut jobs.


So the far right keeps saying.

We have two major national newspapers in Canada. One is avowedly right-wing, the other maybe a tad left of centre. The top tenm radio "news" programs are virtually all far right demagogues, and the top-rated cable news network in North America is also shamelessly partisan on the right.

Fine--that's the free market and all that. But it's a bit much to then have people come and whine about how there's just not enough Glenn Beck ahnd Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn out there. That we need more Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlsons and Michelle Malkins adn Sarah Palins.

Did jounalist veer out of bounds? Perhaps. But then there's Breitbart's infamous editing of the Sherrod video.


Your perception that the media are left-wing is simply because you are not wise enough to account for the fact that your own preconceptions adn biases colour your view.



I stopped listening to MD moons ago. He just likes to shit-stir.

I don't see our media as avowedly left-wing.

I do wonder why the Globe/CTV/CBC/Star all used the Rideau Institute to 'report' on the F35 purchase. A so called 'think tank' that is totally far left.

I also wondered why the same media crews went out of their way to show Toronto police in a bad light over the G20, choosing radical demonstrators over police sources to report the issues, something I have first hand knowledge of.

I continue wonder why the same media crowd rushed to accuse the yanks of killing the four CF soldiers when it clearly wasn't the case. Did they even think of contacting the DND, the Regiment or the families of our killed soldiers to see if there was any truth to this BS before they printed or broadcast it?

Whether they are ‘left wing’ or ‘right wing’ there seems to be a consistent theme with our media.

They are continually searching, printing and broadcasting stories that show the Canadian Forces, the Canadian police and the Dept of National Defence in a bad light.

They also seem to have zero quality control on what they report. They are often very wrong and biased and I am at a loss to figure out why they seem to be on this anti-police/CF/DnD rant.

Any ideas Zip?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:52 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
. We have two major national newspapers in Canada. One is avowedly right-wing, the other maybe a tad left of centre. The top tenm radio "news" programs are virtually all far right demagogues, and the top-rated cable news network in North America is also shamelessly partisan on the right.


And every other Media outlet wether its the CBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, etc. etc. Is left leaning if not out right left wing loonies (MSNBC,PBS,NPR)

$1:
Fine--that's the free market and all that. But it's a bit much to then have people come and whine about how there's just not enough Glenn Beck ahnd Rush Limbaugh and Mark Steyn out there. That we need more Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlsons and Michelle Malkins adn Sarah Palins.


So what would you propose censorship?

$1:
Did jounalist veer out of bounds? Perhaps. But then there's Breitbart's infamous editing of the Sherrod video.


they went WAAAAYY out of bounds this was Goebbels like. Brietbart wanted to show that there are racist people in NAACP ie. those people who were clapping when she was telling the part of the story that she at frist did not want to help the White farmer.

$1:
Your perception that the media are left-wing is simply because you are not wise enough to account for the fact that your own preconceptions adn biases colour your view.


I think the JournoList scandle show that the media is left wing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:53 am
 


Documents show media plotting to kill stories about Rev. Jeremiah Wright
It was the moment of greatest peril for then-Sen. Barack Obama’s political career. In the heat of the presidential campaign, videos surfaced of Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, angrily denouncing whites, the U.S. government and America itself. Obama had once bragged of his closeness to Wright. Now the black nationalist preacher’s rhetoric was threatening to torpedo Obama’s campaign.

The crisis reached a howling pitch in mid-April, 2008, at an ABC News debate moderated by Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos. Gibson asked Obama why it had taken him so long – nearly a year since Wright’s remarks became public – to dissociate himself from them. Stephanopoulos asked, “Do you think Reverend Wright loves America as much as you do?”

Watching this all at home were members of Journolist, a listserv comprised of several hundred liberal journalists, as well as like-minded professors and activists. The tough questioning from the ABC anchors left many of them outraged. “George [Stephanopoulos],” fumed Richard Kim of the Nation, is “being a disgusting little rat snake.”

Others went further. According to records obtained by The Daily Caller, at several points during the 2008 presidential campaign a group of liberal journalists took radical steps to protect their favored candidate. Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.

In one instance, Spencer Ackerman of the Washington Independent urged his colleagues to deflect attention from Obama’s relationship with Wright by changing the subject. Pick one of Obama’s conservative critics, Ackerman wrote, “Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.”

Michael Tomasky, a writer for the Guardian, also tried to rally his fellow members of Journolist: “Listen folks–in my opinion, we all have to do what we can to kill ABC and this idiocy in whatever venues we have. This isn’t about defending Obama. This is about how the [mainstream media] kills any chance of discourse that actually serves the people.”

“Richard Kim got this right above: ‘a horrible glimpse of general election press strategy.’ He’s dead on,” Tomasky continued. “We need to throw chairs now, try as hard as we can to get the call next time. Otherwise the questions in October will be exactly like this. This is just a disease.”

(In an interview Monday, Tomasky defended his position, calling the ABC debate an example of shoddy journalism.)

Thomas Schaller, a columnist for the Baltimore Sun as well as a political science professor, upped the ante from there. In a post with the subject header, “why don’t we use the power of this list to do something about the debate?” Schaller proposed coordinating a “smart statement expressing disgust” at the questions Gibson and Stephanopoulos had posed to Obama.

“It would create quite a stir, I bet, and be a warning against future behavior of the sort,” Schaller wrote.

Tomasky approved. “YES. A thousand times yes,” he exclaimed.

The members began collaborating on their open letter. Jonathan Stein of Mother Jones rejected an early draft, saying, “I’d say too short. In my opinion, it doesn’t go far enough in highlighting the inanity of some of [Gibson's] and [Stephanopoulos’s] questions. And it doesn’t point out their factual inaccuracies …Our friends at Media Matters probably have tons of experience with this sort of thing, if we want their input.”



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/20/docum ... z0uzrUayyY


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:58 am
 


The "Journolist" scandal has deepened with new revelations that participants in the now-defunct email list for ideologically approved journalists--no conservatives allowed--engaged in efforts to suppress news damaging to then-candidate Barack Obama.

The Daily Caller reports ABC News's "tough questioning" of Obama at a 2008 debate with Hillary Clinton "left many of [the Journolist participants] outraged":

"George [Stephanopoulos]," fumed Richard Kim of the Nation, is "being a disgusting little rat snake."
Others went further. According to records obtained by The Daily Caller, at several points during the 2008 presidential campaign a group of liberal journalists took radical steps to protect their favored candidate. Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.
Most damning is a long quote from a Spencer Ackerman, who worked for something called the Washington Independent:

I do not endorse a Popular Front, nor do I think you need to. It's not necessary to jump to Wright-qua-Wright's defense. What is necessary is to raise the cost on the right of going after the left. In other words, find a rightwinger's [sic] and smash it through a plate-glass window. Take a snapshot of the bleeding mess and send it out in a Christmas card to let the right know that it needs to live in a state of constant fear. Obviously I mean this rhetorically.
And I think this threads the needle. If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they've put upon us. Instead, take one of them--Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares--and call them racists. Ask: why do they have such a deep-seated problem with a black politician who unites the country? What lurks behind those problems? This makes *them* sputter with rage, which in turn leads to overreaction and self-destruction.
Smashing somebody's [sic] through a plate-glass window seems like an odd way to thread a needle, but atrocious prose is the least of the problems here. The problem here isn't bias, either. Assuming Ackerman was an opinion writer rather than a straight-news reporter, he was entitled not only to hold his opinions but to express them.

But Ackerman was not engaging in a public debate; he was privately strategizing about how to suppress the news. And his fellow journolists, while disagreeing with him, did so "only on strategic grounds":

"Spencer, you're wrong," wrote Mark Schmitt, now an editor at the American Prospect. "Calling Fred Barnes a racist doesn't further the argument, and not just because Juan Williams is his new black friend, but because that makes it all about character. The goal is to get to the point where you can contrast some _thing_--Obama's substantive agenda--with this crap." . . .
Kevin Drum, then of Washington Monthly, also disagreed with Ackerman's strategy. "I think it's worth keeping in mind that Obama is trying (or says he's trying) to run a campaign that avoids precisely the kind of thing Spencer is talking about, and turning this into a gutter brawl would probably hurt the Obama brand pretty strongly. After all, why vote for him if it turns out he's not going [to] change the way politics works?"
But it was Ackerman who had the last word. "Kevin, I'm not saying OBAMA should do this. I'm saying WE should do this."
If anybody on the list objected in principle to Ackerman's idea of slandering people, including a fellow journalist, as racist, the Caller missed that part of the story. (We'll be happy to report it if a Journolist member would care to supply us with the evidence.) What Ackerman proposed was to carry out a political dirty trick in order to suppress the news and thereby aid a candidate for public office. That's about as unethical as journalism can get.

The final product of this debate was a pathetic "open letter," which, as we noted at the time, was signed by 41 self-described "journalists and media analysts," nearly all of whom were affiliated with universities, left-wing publications or left-wing think tanks. The letter does seem to have been more of a collaborative effort than we guessed back then: the Caller lists eight people who contributed to its drafting. Even so, what self-respecting journalist shares a byline with 40 other guys?

"The letter caused a brief splash and won the attention of the New York Times," the Caller reports, but thereafter was deservedly forgotten until now. Obama weathered the Wright revelations, but it seems a stretch to give Journolist the credit (or, if you prefer, the blame) for that. On the other hand, are there other stories they did succeed in suppressing? We cannot know as long as the full Journolist archives are secret.

These revelations also belie Journolist founder (and now Washington Post commentator) Ezra Klein's defense of the enterprise back in March 2009:

As for sinister implications, is it "secret?" No. Is it off-the-record? Yes. The point is to create a space where experts feel comfortable offering informal analysis and testing out ideas. Is it an ornate temple where liberals get together to work out "talking points?" Of course not. Half the membership would instantly quit if anything like that emerged.
This statement is true only if parsed as a denial that an email list is an ornate temple. Plainly the list was a forum where liberals got together to work out talking points, as evidenced by that "open letter." Worse, it was a forum where people employed as journalists conspired to suppress the news--and, by doing so "off the record," used journalistic ethics as cover.

In 2009 Klein wrote that Journolist's policy of excluding conservatives was "not about fostering ideology but preventing a collapse into flame war. The emphasis is on empiricism, not ideology."

"Call them racists." That's empiricism for you!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 40286.html


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:04 am
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I stopped listening to MD moons ago. He just likes to shit-stir.

I don't see our media as avowedly left-wing.

I do wonder why the Globe/CTV/CBC/Star all used the Rideau Institute to 'report' on the F35 purchase. A so called 'think tank' that is totally far left.

I also wondered why the same media crews went out of their way to show Toronto police in a bad light over the G20, choosing radical demonstrators over police sources to report the issues, something I have first hand knowledge of.

I continue wonder why the same media crowd rushed to accuse the yanks of killing the four CF soldiers when it clearly wasn't the case. Did they even think of contacting the DND, the Regiment or the families of our killed soldiers to see if there was any truth to this BS before they printed or broadcast it?

Whether they are ‘left wing’ or ‘right wing’ there seems to be a consistent theme with our media.

They are continually searching, printing and broadcasting stories that show the Canadian Forces, the Canadian police and the Dept of National Defence in a bad light.

They also seem to have zero quality control on what they report. They are often very wrong and biased and I am at a loss to figure out why they seem to be on this anti-police/CF/DnD rant.

Any ideas Zip?


My ideas? Freedom of the press should rule over all other factors (excepting that they cannot promote hatred against identifiable groups, explicitly call for the violent overthrow of the government, or libel).

Myself, I don't watch TV news. It peddles fear.

I can't think of who the media portrays in a positive light. Theiir job is uncovering dirt. Usually, if you're in the paper, it's not good.


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