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<strong>Title: </strong> <a href="/link.php?id=29118" target="_blank">Debate rages over Canada's oldest city</a> (click to view)

<strong>Category:</strong> <a href="/news/topic/14-misc-cdn" target="_blank">Misc CDN</a>
<strong>Posted By: </strong> <a href="/modules.php?name=Your_Account&op=userinfo&username=Hyack" target="_blank">Hyack</a>
<strong>Date: </strong> 2008-01-15 15:21:42
<strong>Canadian</strong>

[fire_i]

Well really.

Was Saint John's a permanent settlement or just a harbour where fishermen would go while they fished with the intention of returning to Europe afterwards? I'd tend to believe the latter myself.

And that goes without saying recently discovered ruins in Quebec City show that Jacques Cartier, of all people, had attempted and failed to build a settlement pretty much right next to where Champlain built the Abitation in 1608.

On a side note, Dugua Du Mons... blah. Whatever. I don't think the guy even ever crossed the Atlantic. Yes, Champlain was only his lieutenant, but he did all the 'dirty work' so why in the world would we say he's not the founder?

And as a last note... the image of Champlain shown in the article is probably not even his own. Nobody actually knows what Champlain looked like - it's argued he put his own face in the middle of a compass rose on a map he drew, but other than this questionable bit of evidence nobody has any proof that he looks like what we picture him as today. (Still, gotta' say the mustache kicks ass)

[fire_i]

I myself would say it varies according to your definition of "city", but would favor either QC or whatever settlement the Vikings founded in Newfounland a thousand years ago.

[sasquatch2]

There is much evidence that Newfoundland had been used by basque fishermen, to dry and salt their catch, for a long time pre-columbian.....perhaps a century or more. The Grand Banks fishery was a well kept secret by the Basques.

Permanent year round habitation perhaps on occasion in the case of a shipwreck perhaps....

[fire_i]

Find one such habitation and find proof that a) its inhabitant remained in the "city" until their death and not just for a year or so, b) that this habitation is located somewhere within the bounds of present-day or past-day Saint John's and that c) the place where the inhabitants lived was referred to under a specific name and not just "Mr X's log cabin in the woods" and I'll let you all call St J's the oldest city in Canada.

For now you can be certain I'll defend QC's title as long as it's realistically plausible for me to.

[newfette]

just as I'll be certain to defend that the title belongs to ST John's

[Blue_Nose]

More in-depth article here

$1:

Yet historical records show that European ships frequented the St. John's harbour a hundred years before the founding of Quebec City. And according to the Canadian Encyclopedia, Europeans had already begun to settle around the harbour by 1583, when Sir Humphrey Gilbert went ashore to claim the island for the British Crown.

By the time Quebec City was founded 25 years later, St. John's was already a bustling little community, said Paul O'Neill, past president of the Newfoundland Historical Society and author of the book The Oldest City: the Story of St. John's, Newfoundland. "It would have been a port into which ships came and there would have been a scattering of dwellings here," said Mr. O'Neill in an interview.

Canadian historian Jack Granatstein agreed that St. John's is "unquestionably" an older settlement than Quebec City.

[Ripcat]

Let's up the ante...

A settlement is not a city. So, what city first reached 2000 permanent residents?

That question should be the clincher.

There were settlements scattered across the nation for thousands of years before the Europeans showed up.

[Pimpbrewski]

No offence to St-Johns but Quebec City offers more historical sites and has a great variety of cultural events.

[kenmore]

depends on the definition of city.... and if you are talking Canada then I would say it would be Quebec city... Newfoundland did not become part of Canada until 1949.. so if the question asks oldest city in canada it would be Quebec City..

[kenmore]

and sorry lily ... Saskatchwan joined conferation in 1905 as well as Alberta..

[kenmore]

The Dominion of Canada was born with four provinces: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Ontario and Quebec. Newly knighted Sir John A. MacDonald was the first Prime Minister. "We hail the birth of a new nationality," said the headline in Toronto’s Globe.
Kingston Ontario was founded in 1673. it was home of Parliament at one time.

[ziggy]

kenmore kenmore:

and sorry lily ... Saskatchwan joined conferation in 1905 as well as Alberta..

Right over your head.Whoooosh!

[newfette]

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

No offence to St-Johns but Quebec City offers more historical sites and has a great variety of cultural events.

but it's not a question of who has more cultural events

[ziggy]

newfette newfette:

Pimpbrewski Pimpbrewski:

No offence to St-Johns but Quebec City offers more historical sites and has a great variety of cultural events.

but it's not a question of who has more cultural events

Kenmore's still trying to figure out the Regina joke Lily made....you know....Regina....birthday.....oldest province.heh!