[Newsbot]

Title: Justin Trudeau announces $1.5B ocean protection plan
Category: Political
Posted By: andyt
Date: 2016-11-07 14:18:45
Canadian

[andyt]

Let's hope they spend enough to be truly effective.

But really, why is the govt spending the money? There needs to be a way to have the potential polluters pay for this, like some sort of insurance surcharge.

[Matlow]

Why exactly are we (Taxpayers) paying for this. If KM wants a pipeline make them pay for the extras required. The taxpayer should not be footing the bill it should be user pay. Yes I am in favour of the pipeline, I just dont want to pay for it and the required contingency plans.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Let's hope they spend enough to be truly effective.

But really, why is the govt spending the money? There needs to be a way to have the potential polluters pay for this, like some sort of insurance surcharge.

That comment just goes to show how out of your depth you are on this - every company that transports any kind of dangerous good already needs to have insurance to pay for accidents - and I'd be willing to bet that those insurance requirements skyrocketed after the Lac Megantic disaster.

[Matlow]

Spend enough to be truly effective? During the Exxon Valdez oil spill everything that pretended to be a skimmer on the west coast was sent up to Prince William Sound. Herring skiffs were generating thousands per day for their BC owners. Suitcases full of cash were flown up there so contractors could be hired and paid by the highest bidder on the spot it was that mercenary.

Pouring money at the event didn't stop it or make it go away more efficiently. Some studies have indicated that beaches where there was no (or minimal) clean up recovered naturally far better than beaches that were steam cleaned. Why? Because Mother Nature, the largest "polluter" on the planet, has been dealing with its own oil spills for eons and "she" does a pretty good job at cleaning up "her" messes. Steam cleaning the oil off the beaches effectively killed all the beneficial bacteria nature had put on those beaches. Sort of like using antibacterial soap, it kills everything good and bad. I digress.

In BC at the time we had Burrard Clean and at least one of their vessels was up in Prince William Sound. Various iterations of Burrard Clean have now morphed to the Western Canada Spill Response Corporation. I have seen the equipment used by them and basically if it is flat calm, sunny and nice to be outside they might get some of the product spilled (depending on the product of course). Most likely an incident would happen during a Pineapple Express type weather scenario out west (high winds , heavy rain and lumpy seas)and there would be a heck of a mess with little or no ability to recover quickly at the source.

Refined products like diesel of gasoline are the least likely products to cause lasting environmental damage. Bitumen or unrefined crude would be much worse. So why are we not refining the products in Canada and shipping them that way?

From a propaganda perspective if I was KM or anyone interested in increased tanker traffic on the coast I would have airdropped whatever needed to deal with the Bella Bella spill ASAP. There is a ferry that regularly stops at Bella Bella so the spill response stuff could have been up there within 48 hours and skimming away. The problem is diesel is so light it spreads quickly. That rainbow sheen we see on TV is about one molecule thick and really hard to contain. A little goes a long way but it sure makes great media.

Basically the US tug owners are not worried about getting a spanking in Canada so there is no real sense of urgency to deal with the sunken tug.

Imagine if this tug had pulled its stunt in the San Juan Islands...

Pretty sure there would have been just as many spill response types as lawyers standing at the Friday Harbor dock within hours.

I totally agree with actually having a spill response on the West Coast (which we effectively do not now), just let the people making money off the industry pay for it. They should also contribute to a contingency fund until there is a billion dollars there ready to deal with a spill response. That is before the first tanker get loaded by "new" infrastructure. That money would sit there ready to go, controlled by taxpayers who would also reap the interest benefits while the oil and pipeline companies would have comfort that there could be a response if they screw up. In the event of a spill ALL tanker loading on the west coast of Canada would cease until the spill is cleaned up. That incentivizes a quick response and lets industry deal with it. Oh and no cheating by diverting product to US or Eastern ports (if they ever build that pipeline) to load there either.

If the fund gets used those folks would top it up again before another tanker sails. Any shortfall would be made up by the offending polluter and their insurance company.

My two bits worth from an ex-hairy bag who still has an oar in the water on the best coast.

Dave

[andyt]

I guess Boots is under the mistaken impression that insurance will cover all the infrastructure costs Canada incurs to be ready for a spill. It won't, it won't even cover all the clean up. We know how dodgy insurance companies can be. As you say, industry should be paying up front for the infrastructure. Since many companies use the coast, it's not something that can just be billed to a few specific actors up front - it's more like there needs to be a premium paid into the fund every time somebody traverses the area. And make the pipe companies carry the risk for a marine spill of their product. We know how it goes with a shipping line - if there's a major incident the company turns out of be a shell with no assets and just disappears. The pipe is an asset that can be seized if there's a problem.