[Newsbot]

Title: 'Active shooter response' tactical training offered to armed civilians
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2016-04-06 06:15:50
Canadian

[andyt]

Seems like a good idea, as long as the first thing they teach is when not to shoot. Like those courses cops go on where people pop pop up and the cop has to make a quick decision if it's a perp or an innocent. And of course if there's more than one CCW guy in the building, and they don't know each other, how do they stop from shooting each other. This is already a worry for people with guns when the cops arrive.

[Thanos]

These classes are nothing new. Lots of them have been around for a while now. The results are usually laughable though, like someone with diabetes who has to use a walker will suddenly turn into JCVD when some dindu with a gat sticks up the 711 while they're in the store at the same time. I imaging the majority of incidents would pretty much go like this when someone unable or thoroughly inept thinks they're supercop.

[BRAH]

This is the right training available to anyone.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

These classes are nothing new. Lots of them have been around for a while now. The results are usually laughable though, like someone with diabetes who has to use a walker will suddenly turn into JCVD when some dindu with a gat sticks up the 711 while they're in the store at the same time. I imaging the majority of incidents would pretty much go like this when someone unable or thoroughly inept thinks they're supercop.

Citing a movie as 'evidence' of anything isn't an argument.

[BeaverFever]

Well I guess some training is better than no training.

But note that for LE responders, active shooter training is something on the order of 300 hours a year. That's how much experience and repetition is required so that you can operate instinctively in that kind of environment without getting yourself killed or accidentally killing one of the good guys.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

These classes are nothing new. Lots of them have been around for a while now

And it's like everything else - some are better than others.

Dana Loesch has these guys she goes to on her radio show sometimes. They're something like ex Army Rangers or Navy Seals or something.

They go into anything you'd want them to go into. Gun safety, being prepared and training for an emergency, gun knowledge - whatever. They even have camps you can go to, to train.

[BRAH]

If you want the ultimate training throw down $25,000 for the this course.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well I guess some training is better than no training.

But note that for LE responders, active shooter training is something on the order of 300 hours a year. That's how much experience and repetition is required so that you can operate instinctively in that kind of environment without getting yourself killed or accidentally killing one of the good guys.

Hate to say but that's not how they train anymore.

Officer safety is now #1 in any such situation. Collateral damage is now an acceptable risk.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

$1:

The group found that 32 officers unloaded more than 600 rounds during the hour-long rolling gun battle, which spanned three counties, 63 miles of highway and reached speeds of 120 mph. One of the hostages, Misty Holt-Singh, was killed when she was struck by 10 police bullets, authorities said.

All of the police knew that the gunmen held an innocent hostage but that didn't stop them from firing an uncontrolled fusillade of bullets at the suspect vehicle They knowingly killed the hostage and also endangered bystanders with literally hundreds of stray rounds.

And what was the priority?

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/new ... t/27007616

$1:

The guidelines don’t state specifically when a pursuit should be called off, but do say that officers should “balance” the offense, officer safety and whether there are hostages.

Hint: There is no such 'balance'. Whenever 'officer safety' is mentioned in any discussion it is the sole priority to the exclusion of any other priority being discussed.

[2Cdo]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Well I guess some training is better than no training.

But note that for LE responders, active shooter training is something on the order of 300 hours a year. That's how much experience and repetition is required so that you can operate instinctively in that kind of environment without getting yourself killed or accidentally killing one of the good guys.

Not even close.

A good portion of officers don't even do their annual basic qualification shoot every year. The get a superior to "write it off" for them.

[BeaverFever]

Bart and 2Cdo Bart and 2Cdo:

I was referring to the Emergency Response Teams that specialize in active shooter response, not the regular patrol officers. The response teams are more like a SWAT/Hostage Rescue configuration and have ore firepower and training than the everyday street cop.

[2Cdo]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Bart and 2Cdo Bart and 2Cdo:

I was referring to the Emergency Response Teams that specialize in active shooter response, not the regular patrol officers. The response teams are more like a SWAT/Hostage Rescue configuration and have ore firepower and training than the everyday street cop.

The ERT teams do have more training than the average officer but it varies alot from one department to another. Some have very good training and some have absolutely horrible training. A very high proportion of police have terrible shooting skills.

I used to make a ton of money at a club I used to shoot at shooting against law enforcement types that thought they were pretty good shots.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

I was referring to the Emergency Response Teams that specialize in active shooter response, not the regular patrol officers. The response teams are more like a SWAT/Hostage Rescue configuration and have more firepower and training than the everyday street cop.

The lines between the SWAT teams and regular patrol are pretty blurry these days.

In a growing number of jurisdictions in both the USA & Canada there are patrol cops who drive around with SWAT gear in their cars. The proliferation of tactical gear and military weapons has meant that it's the rare cop who doesn't have an Ar-15 or etc. to use if they wish.

Gear that used to be reserved for special teams is now standard for patrol cops. Automatic weapons, flash bang grenades, door rams, zip tie cuffs, Kevlar equipment, CS grenades, and etc. are all commonly found in the trunk of your average cruiser.

And these guys are not training like they should be. In too many cases they get handed this kit and the first time they get to 'practice' with it is on a citizen.

[BeaverFever]

Ok guys, fair enough