[Newsbot]

Title: Ontario�s �Sunshine List� of public-sector workers grows to 115,431
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: shockedcanadian
Date: 2016-03-24 13:07:12
Canadian

[shockedcanadian]

This is what is referred to as "job creation" in Ontario...

[BartSimpson]

That's $11.5bn in just salaries! You can probably toss on another 40% for benefits and applicable payroll taxes.

And, of course, they're underpaid because selfish people like Andy and PD won't get high paying jobs where they can pay high taxes to subsidize these important government types.

[andyt]

Your tightie rightie Canadian friends on this forum keep informing us that 100k is just a middle class salary, and a pretty poor one at that. Shep (a teacher) bragged/whinged that he doesn't qualify because the cutoff is $170,000. Yet you think earning over 100k is outrageous? 85% of those people make less than 150k.

Don't know what it has to do with PD and me, since we don't live in Ontario.

[Lemmy]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

This is what is referred to as "job creation" in Ontario...

How so?

[BeaverFever]

Everyone knows the Sunshine list is useless and irrelevant. I can't believe we have to have the same discussion every year.

1)$100k is not an inordinate amount of money in 2016. This limit was set 20 years ago. Adjusted for inflation, it would be $150,000 today and more than 80% of the names wouldn't even make the list.

2). Most of the people on the list earn significantlly less than $100k, and are teachers, bus drivers, firefighters, etc., but are on the list for things like overtime pay, or payout of unused vacation. If anything, this is a sign of chronic understaffing and underfunding

3) I told you earlier about my teacher friend who wasn't on the list because she, like many public employees can take 75% pay for 4 years then take a full year offf. The timing of the payout put her on the list. You are screaming about these people when you have no fucking idea what's going on. You're angry when she made more than 100k,and ended up on the list but were you equally happy all those years when she was only making 75%? No because you have no fucking clue what this list really is.

The list is dumb and useless

See you next year when your amnesia sets in and we have to go through this all over again.

[fifeboy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Everyone knows the Sunshine list is useless and irrelevant. I can't believe we have to have the same discussion every year.

1)$100k is not an inordinate amount of money in 2016. This limit was set 20 years ago. Adjusted for inflation, it would be $150,000 today and more than 80% of the names wouldn't even make the list.

2). Most of the people on the list earn significantlly less than $100k, and are teachers, bus drivers, firefighters, etc., but are on the list for things like overtime pay, or payout of unused vacation. If anything, this is a sign of chronic understaffing and underfunding

3) I told you earlier about my teacher friend who wasn't on the list because she, like many public employees can take 75% pay for 4 years then take a full year offf. The timing of the payout put her on the list. You are screaming about these people when you have no fucking idea what's going on. You're angry when she made more than 100k,and ended up on the list but were you equally happy all those years when she was only making 75%? No because you have no fucking clue what this list really is.

The list is dumb and useless

See you next year when your amnesia sets in and we have to go through this all over again.

Thank you

[shockedcanadian]

Ya, see you next year. Is that before or after insolvency of Ontario?

Here is a thought, how about outsourcing? As Rob Ford did with garbage services. Outsource privately, compare salaries and adjust public salaries accordingly. There is no way, a TTC driver with a grade 12 education is going to make $150k a year in the private sector except for a few narrow fields and they will be working far longer hours.

It's an unsustainable system that is harming the future of the province and the nation. I have said it many times, if you offered police, firefighters and an array of positions a lower wage to start they would still receive the same interest and employee pool. Supply/demand is a premise government must adhere to as well, the fact that they don't is a sure sign of someone not personally responsible and has no "risk" in said investment.

A jaded person might suggest this is a great way to buy votes. Sell the unborn down the river to pay for today's trough. They will always have their defenders, to hell with basic economic concepts, I assume it is usually those who work for the government or have kids or family members who are. Who else would support such clear lunacy?

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Don't know what it has to do with PD and me, since we don't live in Ontario.

See? That's you being greedy because you don't want to send your fair share to help out the poor people in Ontario who depend on you for their transfer payments.

[shockedcanadian]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

That's $11.5bn in just salaries! You can probably toss on another 40% for benefits and applicable payroll taxes.

And, of course, they're underpaid because selfish people like Andy and PD won't get high paying jobs where they can pay high taxes to subsidize these important government types.

To give you an example of how these COmmunists think, the Chief of Detroit police made $85,000 a year or two ago, the average salary of a police officer in Toronto was higher than that. the Chief of TPS making more than $325k.

Don't try to explain this to people though, economics has never been Canadas strong suit. Nor has innovation. The Toronto Police budget has probably grown at a faster rate than Apple Computers revenue over the last 15 years.

Of course, we will all be told that "they have a dangerous job", "they work really hard", "these guys really earn their money" "it's the cost of running a city" etc. A backhand to all the others who work hard too, but are priced in a more accurate supply/demand model and aren't working in an environment of perpetual debt and transfer of misery to the next generation, through no fault of their own.

By the way these salary cut offs at 100k are not over reported, consider sick days, pension plans, benefits and other components of their salaries, and you have well over $100k a year on this list.

[BartSimpson]

shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

To give you an example of how these COmmunists think, the Chief of Detroit police made $85,000 a year or two ago, the average salary of a police officer in Toronto was higher than that. the Chief of TPS making more than $325k.

Don't try to explain this to people though, economics has never been Canadas strong suit. Nor has innovation. The Toronto Police budget has probably grown at a faster rate than Apple Computers revenue over the last 15 years.

Of course, we will all be told that "they have a dangerous job", "they work really hard", "these guys really earn their money" "it's the cost of running a city" etc. A backhand to all the others who work hard too, but are priced in a more accurate supply/demand model and aren't working in an environment of perpetual debt and transfer of misery to the next generation, through no fault of their own.

By the way these salary cut offs at 100k are not over reported, consider sick days, pension plans, benefits and other components of their salaries, and you have well over $100k a year on this list.

We have a slightly different version of this paradigm going on in Sacramento.

The Mayor and the city council are all Democrats. The last Republican was a guy named Robbie Waters who left the council back in 2006.

The Mayor, a former basketball player named Kevin Johnson, pushed hard for a basketball arena downtown (we already had one outside of the city core) and over and over said the city would only have to contribute around $200m.

After the deal got forced through without a vote (despite the city charter saying it needed a vote) we found out the tab was actually $675m.

Now they're increasing parking rates and making parking fees in some areas 24/7 in order to pay this massive bill to a bunch of politically connect Democrat billionaires.

And the downtown business and residential vacancy rates are soaring as people flee to less expensive suburbs.

The solution?

Seize private parking facilities and make them pay for the arena, too.

And, of course, it's RACIST!!!! to move your business to a less-expensive nearby city like Elk Grove.

I don't get it with the left. They can't do math and they can't understand that people don't have to pay for leftist bullshit if they don't want to. They can just leave.

And now people in city government are whispering about a potential default in 2019 when the bonds on the arena get renegotiated and the city has to acknowledge the full $675m debt.

I'm planning on moving to El Dorado Hills (majority white, majority Republican) by then.

And, of course, it's because I'm a racist.

[Thanos]

Odd that the liberals defending these kinds of salaries are also the ones quickest to condemn when a welder, a heavy equipment operator, an inspector, or a mechanic in the oil patch makes roughly the same amount. Oh, well, hopefully the public sector workers managed to save for a rainy day, even though didn't really have to because if it gets too tough for them they can always retire early and live off of a taxpayer funded gazillion dollar pension plan for the rest of their days.

[shockedcanadian]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

We have a slightly different version of this paradigm going on in Sacramento.

The Mayor and the city council are all Democrats. The last Republican was a guy named Robbie Waters who left the council back in 2006.

The Mayor, a former basketball player named Kevin Johnson, pushed hard for a basketball arena downtown (we already had one outside of the city core) and over and over said the city would only have to contribute around $200m.

After the deal got forced through without a vote (despite the city charter saying it needed a vote) we found out the tab was actually $675m.

Now they're increasing parking rates and making parking fees in some areas 24/7 in order to pay this massive bill to a bunch of politically connect Democrat billionaires.

And the downtown business and residential vacancy rates are soaring as people flee to less expensive suburbs.

The solution?

Seize private parking facilities and make them pay for the arena, too.

And, of course, it's RACIST!!!! to move your business to a less-expensive nearby city like Elk Grove.

I don't get it with the left. They can't do math and they can't understand that people don't have to pay for leftist bullshit if they don't want to. They can just leave.

And now people in city government are whispering about a potential default in 2019 when the bonds on the arena get renegotiated and the city has to acknowledge the full $675m debt.

I'm planning on moving to El Dorado Hills (majority white, majority Republican) by then.

And, of course, it's because I'm a racist.

I am not sure why you bring a racial element to this discussion, it doesn't serve a purpose. As it were, in Ontario, the massive waste has NOT come from minorities in any time in our history. It has come from the same politicians and public unions that put them back into office. Over and over, those who are rewarded, those who are above the law, and even some who are supported by the law, regardless of their abuses, as the OPP illustrated last election when they publicly shilled for Wynne with their anti-conservative stance. A low in their history, which is saying a lot.

If you can't use an abacus and believe that spending to your hearts content is acceptable, I have no use for you as being in government. Regardless of race, creed, gender or even political party.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Ya, see you next year. Is that before or after insolvency of Ontario?

Well before.

$1:

here is no way, a TTC driver with a grade 12 education is going to make $150k a year in the private sector except for a few narrow fields and they will be working far longer hours.

There is no TTC driver who makes a $150 k salary. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

$1:

I have said it many times, if you offered police, firefighters and an array of positions a lower wage to start they would still receive the same interest and employee pool.

Just a lower quality candidate. We're talking about people you will have to trust with your life and welfare of your family. How motivated do you think these people would be ifthey're working for near minimum wage and can easily earn the same money with fewer demands and people like you scrutinizing them endlessly?

$1:

COmmunists

Seriously, Grow up.

$1:

the Chief of Detroit police made $85,000 a year or two ago,

1) Completely Wrong:

$1:

Detroit Police Chief James Craig's contract has been extended two years...Craig, whose annual salary will remain $225,000, has been with the department since 2013."
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m ... /27703631/

2) It's a fucking joke that you think salary of senior management of any large organization, let alone chief of a major metropolitan police force, is $85k. That's not even junior management salary in the private sector. Sorry, but you've completely proven here that you have absolutely no idea what people above you on the job ladder actually do make, let alone what they should make.

3) Using the apocalyptic and financially ruined city of Detroit as an example to follow is exactly why austerity nuts like you should never be listened to. How can you even compare it to Toronto? These cities have nothing in common.
Or as conservative fave Daily Mail put it:

$1:

Town where even the criminals pity cops - Inside the demoralized Detroit police force where cuts mean officers tell their wives: 'If I die you're on your own'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z43rzMGMIA

$1:

By the way these salary cut offs at 100k are not over reported, consider sick days, pension plans, benefits and other components of their salaries, and you have well over $100k a year on this list.

Like I said $100k is not that much, and since a good number of the people on this list don't actually make $100k base salary, the pension and benefits aren't that much.

Thanos Thanos:

Odd that the liberals defending these kinds of salaries are also the ones quickest to condemn when a welder, a heavy equipment operator, an inspector, or a mechanic in the oil patch makes roughly the same amount.

Nobody was every upset over how MUCH they made, although these 20-somethings who've been making $150k for most of the last decade in the oil patch and then couldn't pay their rent the very month after they lost their job do kind of seem to be a microcosm for the province overall.

[shockedcanadian]

http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Police-O ... t,-MI.html


Police Officer Salary in Detroit, MI


I will bet my right arm, if you lowered the starting salary of the police in Toronto you would neither see a degradation in the quality of policing, nor a lackof applicants for this work. So why should we overpay at the expense of another property tax increase?

Duty should come before salary. This risk pay is a load of malarkey in policing in Toronto. If people want to engage in civil service for the right reasons, we would be better off than overpaying for a class of officers who are in the business for selfish reasons. It's how people like Forcillo and officers planting drugs slip through the cracks. You can judge someones character by their sacrifices relative to remuneration, soldiers the pinnacle of such a continuum.

Why would you attack oil workers or anyone else in the private sector, it's apples to oranges. One is privately funded, with private investor risk, the other is paid for by the community and the next generation at the risk of other vital social programs from today and tomorrow.