[Newsbot]

Title: Russia says foreign troops in Ukraine could 'destabilize' east Ukraine situation
Category: Political
Posted By: Regina
Date: 2015-04-17 07:03:20
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

Translation: "If you put troops in Ukraine, we'll escalate the conflict.:

[BartSimpson]

The nerve of the fucking Russians! A few hundred of our people are going to 'destabilize' Ukraine but a few regiments of their goddam troops are just fine.

It's time to ramp up to the same level of sanctions we had on these bastards back in the Soviet days. Cut them off from trade and let the rat bastards line up for bread again.

Enough. I am so sick and tired of the West being pushed around and bullied by every damnable thug on the planet!

It is time...

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The nerve of the fucking Russians! A few hundred of our people are going to 'destabilize' Ukraine but a few regiments of their goddam troops are just fine.

It's time to ramp up to the same level of sanctions we had on these bastards back in the Soviet days. Cut them off from trade and let the rat bastards line up for bread again.

Enough. I am so sick and tired of the West being pushed around and bullied by every damnable thug on the planet!

It is time...

One more can.

[DrCaleb]

^^ That. I saw bits of a 4 hour call in show Putin did, and it was funny to watch him say that Russia didn't have troops in Ukraine with a straight face.

[andyt]

We didn't whoop ass during the cold war, we can't whoop ass now. In fact we've never whoop assed the Russians. Looks like we have to go thru the long, slow, process of attrition instead, but with the economic instability of the west, even that's not a sure thing.

[Regina]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

^^ That. I saw bits of a 4 hour call in show Putin did, and it was funny to watch him say that Russia didn't have troops in Ukraine with a straight face.

It was the Botox.

[Regina]

andyt andyt:

We didn't whoop ass during the cold war, we can't whoop ass now. In fact we've never whoop assed the Russians. Looks like we have to go thru the long, slow, process of attrition instead, but with the economic instability of the west, even that's not a sure thing.

Kicking someones ass isn't necessarily bombing them to oblivion and having white sheets hanging out the window. The west won the Cold War on a number of fronts which also included the odd military tussle by proxy or direct involvement. The Berlin wall signaled defeat but it was a done deal before then.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

We didn't whoop ass during the cold war

The hell we didn't. We won because every time they went up against us we pulled out a new surprise.

I had to pull combat readiness duty in the 80's under Gyroscope and in the course of that operation we had several border skirmishes with the Russians where they infiltrated and got their asses handed to them.

I never fired a shot in any of that but the Black Horse did zot a few of the Russian tanks that dashed at the border and fired canister rounds across the border thinking no one would fire back. They were wrong.

And from 1945 to 1989 an air war took place along that border with shots and missiles in the air almost monthly. All during the Reagan years the ROE for the fighters was if the Russians had their radars on and their noses pointed west our guys were to make one evasive move and if the Russians tracked them they were free to engage. The Russians knocked that crap off PDQ.

And there's plenty more I am aware of and so is anyone else on this site who served in the ETO. No doubt the CF who were in theatre have stories of their own.

Just because you're ignorant of these things doesn't give you a free pass to shit all over your country and the West in general.

We did kick their asses every time they ran up against us. All of those little skirmishes were them testing us and had we failed at the skirmishes the bastards would have attacked us and they damn near did in 1983.

[andyt]

So you're saying we should open up a big can of skirmishes?

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

So you're saying we should open up a big can of skirmishes?

You don't get it, do you? Russia's invasion of Georgia was a skirmish. Their ongoing antics in the Baltic are a skirmish. Their bombers driving down both your coasts and overflying your Arctic territory are a skirmish. Ukraine is a skirmish and if we let them get away with it then the next one stands to be Estonia because Putin has a serious axe to grind with Estonia.

Bloodying Putin's nose in a few places would dial down his confidence and that's what is really needed right now.

Hyperbole aside, shooting down a few Russian planes and taking out a few Russian tanks is a far better alternative to a war that will inevitably escalate.

[andyt]

Well, tell the powers that be. I'm not sure that it would be that simple and easy, nor that the West is in as powerful a position as it was during the cold war.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Well, tell the powers that be. I'm not sure that it would be that simple and easy, nor that the West is in as powerful a position as it was during the cold war.

Russia is in a far less powerful position than they were 20 years ago. Even though we're not what we used to be we are still far and away more than a match for the Russians in every single way.

And we still outmatch them man-for-man because we train and retain our forces far better than the Russians who rely on conscripts who leave the military after two years.

[andyt]

The thing is they're not the only problem on the radar. Gotta keeps some troops for Iraq3.

Maybe it would work. The difference is that the old USSR leaders were solidly ensconced, getting a bloody nose didn't threaten their position, especially with censorship preventing the news from reaching the people. Putin, if he looks weak, he's gone. It's why he's up to his shenanigans in the first place. He wouldn't be as rational as the USSR leadership was. I know we all miss the cold war with the clear rules and all, but these are different times, might need different responses.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The thing is they're not the only problem on the radar. Gotta keeps some troops for Iraq3.

Maybe it would work. The difference is that the old USSR leaders were solidly ensconced, getting a bloody nose didn't threaten their position, especially with censorship preventing the news from reaching the people. Putin, if he looks weak, he's gone. It's why he's up to his shenanigans in the first place. He wouldn't be as rational as the USSR leadership was. I know we all miss the cold war with the clear rules and all, but these are different times, might need different responses.

Operating with clear rules that your enemy understands goes a long way to preventing a war. I know as a leftist you're philosophically opposed to such things but appreciate that in the military sphere everyone is better off when we all understand what each other will do in different situations.

Vague rules lead to wars.