[Newsbot]

Title: Bill C-13 opens door to warrantless spying of our phones and computers
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2014-05-16 12:58:23
Canadian

[DrCaleb]

"You are with us, or you are with the child pornographers" Remember that? This is the same legslation, but we are told 'think of the children' now. Read the bit about the NSA at the bottom too.

[BartSimpson]

Those who are willing to trade essential liberty for security deserve neither.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Those who are willing to trade essential liberty for security deserve neither.

Which is exactly what we will get.... neither.

[DrCaleb]

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Those who are willing to trade essential liberty for security deserve neither.

Which is exactly what we will get.... neither.

Both are impossible when it's the people we expect to do these things that are the ones we need to be wary of.

[peck420]

Anybody happen to have the actual part, from the bill, that opens the door to warrant-less spying?

Bill C-13: http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=6311444

It's almost like people didn't realize that telecomms were handing over our information (without warrants) for a very long time already...

[Jabberwalker]

And how the hell do you process terabytes per milliseconds of that information? They are listening to everything but I'll wager that they are hearing next to nothing.

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

Anybody happen to have the actual part, from the bill, that opens the door to warrant-less spying?

$1:

487.0195 (1) For greater certainty, no preservation demand, preservation order or production order is necessary for a peace officer or public officer to ask a person to voluntarily preserve data that the person is not prohibited by law from preserving or to voluntarily provide a document to the officer that the person is not prohibited by law from disclosing.

(2) A person who preserves data or provides a document in those circumstances does not incur any criminal or civil liability for doing so.

No 'Judge' or 'Justice' required.

peck420 peck420:

It's almost like people didn't realize that telecomms were handing over our information (without warrants) for a very long time already...

Not like I haven't been shouting it from the rooftops for years . . .

[DrCaleb]

Oh, and the link to the bill is:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications ... &File=24#1

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

martin14 martin14:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Those who are willing to trade essential liberty for security deserve neither.

Which is exactly what we will get.... neither.

Both are impossible when it's the people we expect to do these things that are the ones we need to be wary of.

The problem of the Canadian paradigm is similar to that in the USA and that's political correctness.

If law enforcement monitors the members of Islamic groups with ties to known terror groups then they'l be pilloried in the media if it gets out.

Therefore they'll ignore the worst threats and instead concentrate on people who buy stuff on the net to avoid paying GST or some such.

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

$1:

487.0195 (1) For greater certainty, no preservation demand, preservation order or production order is necessary for a peace officer or public officer to ask a person to voluntarily preserve data that the person is not prohibited by law from preserving or to voluntarily provide a document to the officer that the person is not prohibited by law from disclosing.

(2) A person who preserves data or provides a document in those circumstances does not incur any criminal or civil liability for doing so.

No 'Judge' or 'Justice' required.

Voluntarily.

They can not force them to do it without a warrant.

[peck420]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Oh, and the link to the bill is:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications ... &File=24#1

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

$1:

487.0195 (1) For greater certainty, no preservation demand, preservation order or production order is necessary for a peace officer or public officer to ask a person to voluntarily preserve data that the person is not prohibited by law from preserving or to voluntarily provide a document to the officer that the person is not prohibited by law from disclosing.

(2) A person who preserves data or provides a document in those circumstances does not incur any criminal or civil liability for doing so.

No 'Judge' or 'Justice' required.

Voluntarily.

They can not force them to do it without a warrant.

Really? That's what you take away from that?

Police can go to a phone company, ask that your records be given to them without judicial oversight and the phone company (credit card company, ISP...) will face no repercussions so long as they are not legally restricted from giving that information - and all you see is that the company doesn't have to if they don't want to?

I'd like you to meet this guy, Edward Snowdon, who's been telling us for quite some time that they've been doing it for a long while anyway.

They used to require a 'preservation demand', now they won't. That's the only real change here. Who needs privacy legislation anyhow?

[PostFactum]

Who cares, spying with warranty or without it. They are already spying without papers.

[DrCaleb]

PostFactum PostFactum:

Who cares, spying with warranty or without it. They are already spying without papers.

I care, because the government has certain responsibilities with respect to me, my fellow citizens and and our safety. And wasting time and resources protecting me from me is a waste of limited resources. Pretending that this legislation is really about protecting teens online is also an affront to our intelligence.