[Newsbot]

Title: Hudak pitches electricity subsidy for manufacturers
Category: Business
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2013-07-18 11:20:25
Canadian

[Jabberwalker]

It sounds like an excellent idea to me. It might counterbalance some of the damage that has been done to the manufacturing sector by the high Canadian dollar

[saturn_656]

As long as residential ratepayers aren't forced to endure more rate increases to pay for it.

[jeff744]

If a manufacturer can't survive on its own then it's time to put it down, if they want to save on power costs then toss some solar panels on the roof and apply for those government grants.

[Zipperfish]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

As long as residential ratepayers aren't forced to endure more rate increases to pay for it.

I don't see how they wouldn't be paying for it, either through rate increases or taxes.

Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.

[saturn_656]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

As long as residential ratepayers aren't forced to endure more rate increases to pay for it.

I don't see how they wouldn't be paying for it, either through rate increases or taxes.

Socialize the losses, privatize the gains.

No more tax increases, no more rate hikes. The Ontario Liberals are already untouchable for me, I'd hate for the PC's to pull some sneaky trick to discount power to big business and stick the little guy with the tab.

I'd have to vote for the NDP, and that frightens me in ways you can't fathom.

[raydan]

Every company offers discounts to it's best customers, why not hydro.

[Jabberwalker]

jeff744 jeff744:

If a manufacturer can't survive on its own then it's time to put it down, if they want to save on power costs then toss some solar panels on the roof and apply for those government grants.

First of all, it's not a level playing field and we compete against countries that heavily subsidize manufacturing (because they understand how crucially valuable manufacturing is) and places that pay, literally, slave wages. The middle class and modern democracy came about from the wealth generated from manufacturing activities and no substitute for the wealth creating power of manufacturing has yet emerged. We're seeing glimpses of the real post-industrial society right now where almost all of the wealth is concentrated in very few hands and the huge majority have no means available to them to earn a decent enough living to stay out of poverty. Service sector employment certainly can't and the vaunted "information age" appears to pay a living to a very small elite while merely entertaining the vast majority of us. You might feel "cutting edge" texting your friends all day long but it won't feed your children ... at all.

[saturn_656]

raydan raydan:

Every company offers discounts to it's best customers, why not hydro.

I don't care if they give business a discount, just don't make up the difference from the pockets of residential ratepayers.

[raydan]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

raydan raydan:

Every company offers discounts to it's best customers, why not hydro.

I don't care if they give business a discount, just don't make up the difference from the pockets of residential ratepayers.

What you're hoping when you offer discounts is attracting new customers and raising sales, generating an economy of scale greater than the costs of those discounts. Without that, no use giving them. But this being government, there's the added benefice of job creation.

[saturn_656]

raydan raydan:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

raydan raydan:

Every company offers discounts to it's best customers, why not hydro.

I don't care if they give business a discount, just don't make up the difference from the pockets of residential ratepayers.

What you're hoping when you offer discounts is attracting new customers and raising sales, generating an economy of scale greater than the costs of those discounts. Without that, no use giving them. But this being government, there's the added benefice of job creation.

Too many big ideas in your suggestion that our Hydro execs can't comprehend.

[raydan]

I was going to show you the numbers for Québec as an example, but Hydro Québec has the same rate for everybody which screws up my point ... and it's already the lowest rate for residential and one of the lowest for commercial.

Here are the numbers... produced by Hydro Québec but it gives numbers for other cities in North America for comparison.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications ... 012_en.pdf

[saturn_656]

raydan raydan:

I was going to show you the numbers for Québec as an example, but Hydro Québec has the same rate for everybody which screws up my point ... and it's already the lowest rate for residential and one of the lowest for commercial.

Here are the numbers... produced by Hydro Québec but it gives numbers for other cities in North America for comparison.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications ... 012_en.pdf

Quebec is blessed by an abundance of cheap hydro- electricity. Much the same as my area of Ontario, if it was just us our rates would be low too...

Unfortunately we have this problem, known as Southern Ontario.

[Xort]

$1:

A spokesperson for Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli said it is inaccurate to characterize what the province pays for renewable solar and wind power as a subsidy, even though producers of wind power are paid 13.5 cents per kilowatt hour — or more than three times what Ontario Power Generation receives for hydroelectric power.

Yeah, cut the subsidies to solar and wind, then pass the savings onto everyone.

When will people learn how terrible solar and wind are?

[jeff744]

Xort Xort:

$1:

A spokesperson for Energy Minister Bob Chiarelli said it is inaccurate to characterize what the province pays for renewable solar and wind power as a subsidy, even though producers of wind power are paid 13.5 cents per kilowatt hour — or more than three times what Ontario Power Generation receives for hydroelectric power.

Yeah, cut the subsidies to solar and wind, then pass the savings onto everyone.

When will people learn how terrible solar and wind are?

They won't, the majority of the population sees 'green' and then doesn't bother looking at it closely enough to realize that the only reason it is still an industry is because the government wants the PR.