[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I'm not sure he has that image. That's the image the Conservatives would have for him. It worked for "gormless Dion" and "opportunistic Ignatieff." It's not going so well this time. The fact that the story was manufactured in the PMO boomeranged. It was overplayed. The "silver-spoon, not-fit-for-primetime" Trudeau meme was competing with the "hyper-partisan, controlling HArper" meme, to ill effect for the Conservatives.

The impression I get is that Canadian want to make their own minds up about Trudeau.

Frankly, I don't you could be objective on the subject of Justin and his image based on your bias.

Justin has a lot of advantages over Harper. He's younger, more charismatic and provides some hope beyond the standard boring "sweater-vest" politician. Those factors alone can get him into the PM chair if he can manage the negatives.

Whether you and the rest of the Liberals want to admit it, being a rich kid and son of a former PM has more negatives on your image than positive. He has to rise above that, define himself and relate to Canadians. So far, he's yet to do that.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Frankly, I don't you could be objective on the subject of Justin and his image based on your bias.

Justin has a lot of advantages over Harper. He's younger, more charismatic and provides some hope beyond the standard boring "sweater-vest" politician. Those factors alone can get him into the PM chair if he can manage the negatives.

Whether you and the rest of the Liberals want to admit it, being a rich kid and son of a former PM has more negatives on your image than positive. He has to rise above that, define himself and relate to Canadians. So far, he's yet to do that.

Frankly, I doubt that anyone can be objective about anything, period. However we can try. If you re-read the post, I don't think saying that "Canadians want to make up their own mind about Trudeau" is hyper-partisan.

I agree the jury is still out on Trudeau as far as most Canadians go. That's why I don't think the attack ads of the Conservatvies (edit) aren'tare working. They're not being subtle at all; they're beating people over the head with it. If you want to tell people what to think, you have to do it in such a way as to make them believe they aren't being told what to think.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

How about this: I'll admit that you've changed my mind. You've successfully argued that MPs should not charge for speaking on the grounds that doing speeches is part of the job they're being paid for. Okay? You've convinced me.

Bullshit.

Why would you say that? You clearly made your points in an effort to change my mind, to convince me of your arguments. This time you were successful. I'm not too proud to admit when my position was wrong. You should try it some time.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

So is this story a net winner or loser for Trudeau and his reputation? I say a big winner.

Completely disagree. Politics is about image. Justin has to shake the image of being a silver-spoon boy and relate to average Canadians. The optics of him charging 20k to support charities goes to cement the ongoing impression of JT as being a privileged rich kid.

You're right, this is about optics. The optics here is that the Conservative attack machine tried to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, Trudeau acted decisively to clear up the concerns raised and came out looking like a leader and someone with a lot of personal character and integrity. It, like the last round of attack commercials, backfired.

[fifeboy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Justin has a lot of advantages over Harper.

Jeeze-- a sack of potatoes has a lot of advantages over Steve!

[PluggyRug]

fifeboy fifeboy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Justin has a lot of advantages over Harper.

Jeeze-- a sack of potatoes has a lot of advantages over Steve!

Jersey Royals don't come in sacks.

[fifeboy]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

fifeboy fifeboy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Justin has a lot of advantages over Harper.

Jeeze-- a sack of potatoes has a lot of advantages over Steve!

Jersey Royals don't come in sacks.

But good milk is served in a glass. Do Jersey Royals make good scalloped potatoes! Me thinks old Stevo only likes 'em baked, which may be a waste.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Why would you say that? You clearly made your points in an effort to change my mind, to convince me of your arguments. This time you were successful. I'm not too proud to admit when my position was wrong. You should try it some time.

I do quite often, but I appreciate the advice, nonetheless.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Lemmy Lemmy:

So is this story a net winner or loser for Trudeau and his reputation? I say a big winner.

Lemmy Lemmy:

You're right, this is about optics. The optics here is that the Conservative attack machine tried to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, Trudeau acted decisively to clear up the concerns raised and came out looking like a leader and someone with a lot of personal character and integrity. It, like the last round of attack commercials, backfired.

One person doesn't speak for the majority nor do you know the full effect of the campaign against JT until election day. Same goes for JT's own ads...the effect they had is unknown.

At this point, you cannot say whether or not they were effective or failed.

[FieryVulpine]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Whether you and the rest of the Liberals want to admit it, being a rich kid and son of a former PM has more negatives on your image than positive. He has to rise above that, define himself and relate to Canadians. So far, he's yet to do that.

I disagree. Being a rich kid and the son of a former PM are not negative in themselves, it what Justin says and what he does that largely impact his image and it goes without saying that I am not impressed (as most people here are aware of.) Take for instance when a reporter recently asked him a question regarding negotiating with the Taliban. He snidely commented to said reporter that "You are Sun News people, I know" when the aforementioned reporter worked for the CBC and gave his usual stock answer about "engaging constructively across the world." These comments, in tandem with statements similar to the one he made about the Boston Marathon bombing, suggest that Mr. Trudeau is disengaged with the world and lacks true empathy for middle and working class Canadians. There is something about the tone of his voice that sounds artificial and patronizing and I find it a major turn off.

It is not that I believe that he is a bad person, I simply believe that he is blinded by his own world view and none of the people he surrounds himself with are willing to say, "this might not be a good idea."

[peck420]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Frankly, if you consider that an insult, you've got some mighty thin skin...better be careful in the kitchen not to nick yourself, you might bleed to death!

It's fatal!

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

One person doesn't speak for the majority nor do you know the full effect of the campaign against JT until election day. Same goes for JT's own ads...the effect they had is unknown.

At this point, you cannot say whether or not they were effective or failed.

The election is still a couple off years away. I think it's fair to say that attack ads launched against Trudeua, based on discussion in the media and based on the reaction of Conservatives themselves, has not been as effective as they were against Rae, Dion and Ignatieff.

In discussion in the media, there's been a rise in the competing "hyper-partisan" Harper storyline. Ironically enough, Liberals haven't run any such attack ads--it may have been the defection of Rathberger that really got that ball rolling.

Although it's true that you can lose a battle and still win the war, you still want to be mindful of the outcome of battles.

Perhaps it's because Trudeau is still on his honeymoon with Canadians. Or perhaps it's because the Conservatives are themselves currently embroiled in scandal, so attacks on Trudeau seem more distractional than substantial.

The upside for the Conservatives is that the decimated Lberal Party is too wrapped up in itself--with a new leader, and old ones retiring--to take full advantage of the vulnerable position the Conservatives currently find themselves in.

[Zipperfish]

Well, it's been two hours and no one has responded therefore I win the argument.

[ShepherdsDog]

nuh-uh

[FieryVulpine]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Perhaps it's because Trudeau is still on his honeymoon with Canadians. Or perhaps it's because the Conservatives are themselves currently embroiled in scandal, so attacks on Trudeau seem more distractional than substantial.

Agreed.

[martin14]

bootlegga bootlegga:

No, I said that anyone who turns off their reputation can't stand the heat in the kitchen and at the same time noted that most of the people who do it are right-leaning.

Maybe most of the current.

I'll invoke the dead................ Derby

[Jonny_C]

Sure, these items are from Sun News, but judge them on the merits of the arguments...

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/st ... 33509.html

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/st ... 71910.html

There's more than a little valid criticism there, IMO.