[commanderkai]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

I think the Conservative focus has become balancing the books, by whatever means, before the next election call. So even if they want to do better by our armed forces, they may allow the pressure of the bottom line to take precedence.

Political expediency over need. It's easier to cut military procurement (less backlash) than a lot of other programs, seems to me.

I completely agree. It disappoints me greatly, but yeah, that's my view on why Harper decided to foster cuts upon the Canadian military instead of attempting any other cuts in the budget. Boot is right though that some military procurement could have gone through the stimulus plan, and I'd agree with him on that point. I'm not happy with the decision, but to Harper and his government, it's politically prudent. Maybe that's why I give Harper some credit for what he did, but at the same time, my expectations were already quite low, considering the last 50 years.

[martin14]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

I'd like to see new ships built in Canada, if that's at all possible.

Pretty sure we don't have that capability anymore, which is why we have
to buy everything somewhere else.

[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I loved Training Squadron and having an Officer Cadetiot of my own. We always had a shit load of MARS bars too, and during my OSUT we were quartered in the same mess.

Never did training squadron. Spent my time in 2 squadron. Mind, the KINGSTONS made up for that.

All but 2 or my ships were training squadron. Hell I even had one changed over to training squadron in the middle on the night on a deployement.

The worst part about training squadron was that once you got posted there it was like a life prison sentence you never got out.

But on the plus side I did get to Australia but it was with Training Squadron.

[rickc]

Its actually a good looking ship. The specs look good. As far as frigates go, its state of the art. If a crew of only 94 can man this ship, I would say it deserves some serious consideration by procurement officials of the RCN.

[Freakinoldguy]

rickc rickc:

Its actually a good looking ship. The specs look good. As far as frigates go, its state of the art. If a crew of only 94 can man this ship, I would say it deserves some serious consideration by procurement officials of the RCN.

Never happen.

As long as we have the capability to build out own ships that's what we'll do and then, we'll scour the earth for good deals on the missle, weapons and propuslion systems, Canadianizing them to work together after about 5 years of teething problems.

German Diesels, Italian Guns, American Missles, Canadian Computer Systems.

Seems kind of redundant doesn't it.

[BeaverFever]

Funny, I just heard a quote today that seems apt:

With access to British culture, American technology and French cuisine, Canada could have been a world leader. Instead we chose American culture, French technology and British cuisine so the world ignores us.

[bootlegga]

Thanos Thanos:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Be careful now, criticism of our Dear Leader automatically means you are nothing less than a filthy socialist liberal!

Please don't talk like that. One Curtman per discussion board is more than enough.

The emoticon should have informed you that I was being facetious...if not, I'm telling you now that I was facetious!

[ShepherdsDog]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I loved Training Squadron and having an Officer Cadetiot of my own. We always had a shit load of MARS bars too, and during my OSUT we were quartered in the same mess.

Never did training squadron. Spent my time in 2 squadron. Mind, the KINGSTONS made up for that.

All but 2 or my ships were training squadron. Hell I even had one changed over to training squadron in the middle on the night on a deployement.

The worst part about training squadron was that once you got posted there it was like a life prison sentence you never got out.

But on the plus side I did get to Australia but it was with Training Squadron.

1 in 3 watch in 4 Sqdrn. I think 2 had a 1 in 4?

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Ahhhhh....2 Sqdn Harbour Patrol

Not when I was there. I was on the battle star - had to show the massive piece of junk to the world.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Never did training squadron. Spent my time in 2 squadron. Mind, the KINGSTONS made up for that.

All but 2 or my ships were training squadron. Hell I even had one changed over to training squadron in the middle on the night on a deployement.

The worst part about training squadron was that once you got posted there it was like a life prison sentence you never got out.

But on the plus side I did get to Australia but it was with Training Squadron.

1 in 3 watch in 4 Sqdrn. I think 2 had a 1 in 4?

Yep. Gates and MCDVs were 1in 3 though.

[Freakinoldguy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

1 in 3 watch in 4 Sqdrn. I think 2 had a 1 in 4?

Due to the manning constraints we were pretty much a 1 in 3 system and the only time we ever got to a 1 in 4 was when we went on an extended deployment and the Mars II's got trained up. 2 Squadron when they went to sea, sailed 1 in 2 system which had it's own drawbacks.

The worst thing about a 1 in 3 system in 4 Squadron was the Man Overboards, you had to pull people from everywhere just to fill the positions so you got a lot of Stewards, cooks, and even engineers in some cases. Having trained Mars II's though it settled itself out because you could use them and they were actually quite proficient at boatwork especially after doing it twice a day for weeks on end.

The most ships company I ever sailed with on a Training Squadron Ship was 120 which was a pain in the ass especially making out the watch and station bill, because of those 120 at least 20% of them were transients from the refit ships or ashore. So having Mars II's was a bonus, Mars IV's not so much.

[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yep. Gates and MCDVs were 1in 3 though.

Are the MCDV's still 1 in 3? Seems to me they'd be better off doing 1 in 2 with the exception of cleaning stations which always suffered in that watch system

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

1 in 3 watch in 4 Sqdrn. I think 2 had a 1 in 4?

Due to the manning constraints we were pretty much a 1 in 3 system and the only time we ever got to a 1 in 4 was when we went on an extended deployment and the Mars II's got trained up. 2 Squadron when they went to sea, sailed 1 in 2 system which had it's own drawbacks.

The worst thing about a 1 in 3 system in 4 Squadron was the Man Overboards, you had to pull people from everywhere just to fill the positions so you got a lot of Stewards, cooks, and even engineers in some cases. Having trained Mars II's though it settled itself out because you could use them and they were actually quite proficient at boatwork especially after doing it twice a day for weeks on end.

The most ships company I ever sailed with on a Training Squadron Ship was 120 which was a pain in the ass especially making out the watch and station bill, because of those 120 at least 20% of them were transients from the refit ships or ashore. So having Mars II's was a bonus, Mars IV's not so much.

Man, you'd hate it now. Most ships crews are made up of probably 30% or more transient. Up to 50% on the smaller ships. ORCAS are scratch crews brought together for a MARS IV then dispersed when done.

Dumb.

[Gunnair]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yep. Gates and MCDVs were 1in 3 though.

Are the MCDV's still 1 in 3? Seems to me they'd be better off doing 1 in 2 with the exception of cleaning stations which always suffered in that watch system

Still.

I've always pushed for 1 in 2 but for some reason it never seems to fly.

[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

1 in 3 watch in 4 Sqdrn. I think 2 had a 1 in 4?

Due to the manning constraints we were pretty much a 1 in 3 system and the only time we ever got to a 1 in 4 was when we went on an extended deployment and the Mars II's got trained up. 2 Squadron when they went to sea, sailed 1 in 2 system which had it's own drawbacks.

The worst thing about a 1 in 3 system in 4 Squadron was the Man Overboards, you had to pull people from everywhere just to fill the positions so you got a lot of Stewards, cooks, and even engineers in some cases. Having trained Mars II's though it settled itself out because you could use them and they were actually quite proficient at boatwork especially after doing it twice a day for weeks on end.

The most ships company I ever sailed with on a Training Squadron Ship was 120 which was a pain in the ass especially making out the watch and station bill, because of those 120 at least 20% of them were transients from the refit ships or ashore. So having Mars II's was a bonus, Mars IV's not so much.

Man, you'd hate it now. Most ships crews are made up of probably 30% or more transient. Up to 50% on the smaller ships. ORCAS are scratch crews brought together for a MARS IV then dispersed when done.

Dumb.

I'd heard something about that from a few friends that that are still in. They claim that some people especially in some of the Tech Trades are being sent from ship to ship and deployment to deployment because of the lack of personnel.


And yeah you're right I would hate it now. Before I got out it was starting to change for the worse, not enough people, to much sea time. I used to dread coming alongside after a deployment because the second you did the matey's were all over the ship. The reality has been since the late 80's is that there just aren't enough people to man all the ships and keep a normal sea shore roster and the only solution for that is hire more sailors or tie up ships, neither of which seems to be an option for Ottawa or NDHQ.

So they continue burning out their best resource and wondering why nobody reup;s or stays past the first day of pensionable time.