[Scape]

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

Scape Scape:

We have hardly one rooftop adorned with a solar panel in all of Canada and the power is free for the taking.

To be fair, solar panels are not exactly cheap from what I understand and if someone has to choose between food on their table or a spiffy new solar panel, guess what they are going to choose.

Moreover, solar panels have to be energy intense in their fabrication. First, you must mine the necessary elements, which leaves plenty of waste and pollution to extract and purify. Then you have to build it, which again takes energy and I don't think renewables are going to cut it because of their low energy density compared to fossil fuels. Then you have to ship it, which takes gasoline or diesel, and when all it said and done you spent a whole lot of energy for comparatively little you get from a solar panel.

The human race is better off trying to invest in having nuclear fusion practical, or maybe try to make energy transmission possible. I hear the sun's rays are stronger out in space. I don't need some hippie telling me I need to invest in biofuel thank you very much (which will likely cause food shortages anyway).

No offense but that sort of thinking is exactly what slave owners were saying when abolition was on the table. There will ALWAYS be an excuse. If anything too much dependence on any one source makes us weak through lack of diversity. Also, the tech will not be developed as long as 'cheaper' options are still readily available. Why buy healthy food when junk food is dirt cheap? Rampant obesity is the result. We don't have solar panels because it's just too cheap to burn more oil and gas. We don't even bother to properly insulate because the labour is more expensive then the cost of more gas.

Bio-fuels are a HORRIBLE idea, it will only end up making more arable land barren that could have been used to feed. Perhaps a large sun panel in space would be efficient but I have yet to see any serious attempts.

[sandorski]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

sandorski sandorski:

Ahh, the old "I'm not a Denier, I'm a Skeptic" argument. Sorry, a Skeptic actually is open minded and doesn't just throw out Denier Talking Points endlessly.

Fail.

The use of the word denier shows the only evidence you have is an undenying faith.

We the jury find the evidence relies on faith only. Therefore, not having proved beyond all reasonable doubt, we the jury find Mr AGW guilty as charged.

Fail, sorry.

[PluggyRug]

sandorski sandorski:

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

sandorski sandorski:

Ahh, the old "I'm not a Denier, I'm a Skeptic" argument. Sorry, a Skeptic actually is open minded and doesn't just throw out Denier Talking Points endlessly.

Fail.

The use of the word denier shows the only evidence you have is an undenying faith.

We the jury find the evidence relies on faith only. Therefore, not having proved beyond all reasonable doubt, we the jury find Mr AGW guilty as charged.

Fail, sorry.

The trial over, AGW lost. The AGW inquisition has been found guilty.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

it will only end up making more arable land barren that could have been used to feed.

Encouraging those that already have too many children to breed even more, placing larger demands on finite resources such as water, forests, ocean fish stocks to name but a few.

[Apollo]

We have literally had no summer in Canada for almost 3 years. We get a single hot month and we are back on the global warming band wagon. We are force fed bullshit that you can't take a cool couple of summers and say that global warming is over yet here we are taking a single hot month and showing it off as proof that global warming is real.

This is lunacy.

This is no different that the DDT hoax that continues to cost thousands of lives, ozone layer depletion that was supposed to cook us all like a microwave and Y2K where every machine on the planet would stop working. Global warming is armaggedon du jour. 10 years from now it will be poisonous jelly beans.

[N_Fiddledog]

Yeah, like how quickly we forget Obama having to fly home early from the Copenhagen global warming conference last winter, because a horrific blizzard forming on the east coast of NA was going to make it impossible to land.

So...either these little weather disturbances matter, or they don't. Make up your mind.

[sandorski]

Apollo Apollo:

We have literally had no summer in Canada for almost 3 years. We get a single hot month and we are back on the global warming band wagon. We are force fed bullshit that you can't take a cool couple of summers and say that global warming is over yet here we are taking a single hot month and showing it off as proof that global warming is real.

This is lunacy.

This is no different that the DDT hoax that continues to cost thousands of lives, ozone layer depletion that was supposed to cook us all like a microwave and Y2K where every machine on the planet would stop working. Global warming is armaggedon du jour. 10 years from now it will be poisonous jelly beans.

Protip: Where you specifically Live is not Canada as a whole. Tell Southern Ontario there's been no Summer.

[sandorski]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Yeah, like how quickly we forget Obama having to fly home early from the Copenhagen global warming conference last winter, because a horrific blizzard forming on the east coast of NA was going to make it impossible to land.

So...either these little weather disturbances matter, or they don't. Make up your mind.

Epic Fail. Congrats.

[Scape]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

it will only end up making more arable land barren that could have been used to feed.

Encouraging those that already have too many children to breed even more, placing larger demands on finite resources such as water, forests, ocean fish stocks to name but a few.

Nice Shep, I suppose war is a good thing if it cuts down on the 'surplus population' as well in your mind? Hey I'm all for family planning and all that even if my government is not for even a whiff of the mention of abortion on demand scares the shit out of them but denying the masses food simply because they will only breed is just mean. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense either from a practical standpoint as people who can provide for their families tend to help those in their community as opposed to those who have great need and have to steal or kill to secure their existence only begets instability.

[FieryVulpine]

Scape Scape:

No offense but that sort of thinking is exactly what slave owners were saying when abolition was on the table. There will ALWAYS be an excuse. If anything too much dependence on any one source makes us weak through lack of diversity. Also, the tech will not be developed as long as 'cheaper' options are still readily available. Why buy healthy food when junk food is dirt cheap? Rampant obesity is the result. We don't have solar panels because it's just too cheap to burn more oil and gas. We don't even bother to properly insulate because the labour is more expensive then the cost of more gas.

Bio-fuels are a HORRIBLE idea, it will only end up making more arable land barren that could have been used to feed. Perhaps a large sun panel in space would be efficient but I have yet to see any serious attempts.

None taken. Unlike like a certain other person I addressed, you present a perfectly reasonable and thought-provoking rebuttal. At least we agree on the second point though.

I will also agree that civilization will have to ween off of fossil fuels if not for practical reasons because they are finite and will ultimately cost us more than it's worth to extract.

[ASLplease]

so after thousands of years of warming and cooling trends,man has finally screwed things up by increasing the temperature by a fraction of a degree......and we have terrible luck because this fraction of a degree is enough to cause flooding, extreme weather,,,,total doomsday kind of stuff.

Does this sound believable to you? not me.

[ShepherdsDog]

Scape Scape:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

it will only end up making more arable land barren that could have been used to feed.

Encouraging those that already have too many children to breed even more, placing larger demands on finite resources such as water, forests, ocean fish stocks to name but a few.

Nice Shep, I suppose war is a good thing if it cuts down on the 'surplus population' as well in your mind? Hey I'm all for family planning and all that even if my government is not for even a whiff of the mention of abortion on demand scares the shit out of them but denying the masses food simply because they will only breed is just mean. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense either from a practical standpoint as people who can provide for their families tend to help those in their community as opposed to those who have great need and have to steal or kill to secure their existence only begets instability.

Currently war and famine are the only things keeping the human population in check. If the Third World suddenly had access to plentiful food and cheap energy, there'd be an unprecedented population explosion and our finite resources would be gone much sooner than later. The war for water will be a real nasty one. I know you cradle to the grave types get all misty eyed about this stuff, but the trouble is we live in the real world, not an ideal one.

It's funny how you left leaners heap praises on Martin for his austerity measures...short term pain for long term gain..saving our children's future and all that yadda yadda, but when it's applied on a macro/global scale, it's suddenly 'mean'. Help the Third Worlders yes,but place conditions on that assistance, starting with their reproductive behaviours. We also have to make sure that we take care of our own first, otherwise we'll be in no position to offer assistance to anyone, and face it, without the wealthy West there'd be even more dead Africans and Asians. Poor people can't be philanthropists.

[desertdude]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

An ice age is happening now--

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

global warming. There's certainly no stopping it at this point,

Anybody see a contradiction here or is it just me ? Or is the great wise one trying to say Global Warming is happening because of the Ice Age ( which is BTW is happening now ) or vice versa ?

Or are we having a globally warmed ice age

[DerbyX]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

It was far more than just a few, and they bombarded us with "doom and gloom' reports for several YEARS. Suzuki was one of those "Ice Age Coming" guys.

Back then they also used the argument that the science proved it. Now we laugh at them, as we will laugh at the Cult of Global Warming in 20-30 years.

No that is the myth that back in the 70s scientists were predicting a new ice age. It was a popular media contrived myth that manages to cling to life simply because people want to believe it. Newsweek and Time each printed a "cooling?" article in 75 and 74 respectively but neither were peer reviewed scientific papers. A careful study of actual scientific papers shows quite the opposite. The number of papers predicting a warming has increased significantly which is understandable co0nsidering the very high level of support AGW has among the experts.

[Zipperfish]

desertdude desertdude:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

An ice age is happening now--

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

global warming. There's certainly no stopping it at this point,

Anybody see a contradiction here or is it just me ? Or is the great wise one trying to say Global Warming is happening because of the Ice Age ( which is BTW is happening now ) or vice versa ?

Or are we having a globally warmed ice age

Oh too bad. You should have taken my advice and simply not posted until reading a little more on the subject. But no, you just had to come back and show your credentials as a complete fucktard on the subject.

Yes, it is just you who sees the contradiction. Well, you and all the other knuckle-draggers who seem to think you've figured out in ten minutes what thousands of PhDs working thousands of hours have never contemplated.

The issue is the rate of change of the concentration of carbon dioxide and the rate of change of the temperature which, acccording to about 97% of scientists conducting research in relevant fields and the opiniion of every major national and internatinal scientific body globally, is anthropogenic in source and causing a measurable impact on global climate.

And believe it or not, they probably have considered the context of geological claimte change.