[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Proc's statements about inter racial marriage are racist, but the same can't be said about his anti German stance, which is general prejudice. Your ideas of 'race' seem a bit dated.

I'm all for the updated definition links here...

Got some?

[ShepherdsDog]

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Lewontin/

$1:

Over the last thirty five years a major change has taken place in our biological understanding of the concept of human “race,” largely as a consequence of an immense increase in our knowledge of human genetics. As a biological rather than a social construct, “race” has ceased to be seen as a fundamental reality characterizing the human species.

The belief in 'race' is what fuels racism. The concept and use came into use in the 1600s. There is no German or French race, as the two people are gentetically indentical and up until a thousand years ago, many were known merely as Franks. Seeing them as races is as laughable as Kenmore's declaration that the Quebecois(e) are a race.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Lewontin/

$1:

Over the last thirty five years a major change has taken place in our biological understanding of the concept of human “race,” largely as a consequence of an immense increase in our knowledge of human genetics. As a biological rather than a social construct, “race” has ceased to be seen as a fundamental reality characterizing the human species.

The belief in 'race' is what fuels racism. The concept and use came into use in the 1600s. There is no German or French race, as the two people are gentetically indentical and up until a thousand years ago, many were known merely as Franks. Seeing them as races is as laughable as Kenmore's declaration that the Quebecois(e) are a race.

Although there has certainly been a move afoot to seperate race from ethnicity, it has not been altogether successful. Whether we like it or not, the modern use of the term racism includes ethnicity and is not simply referencing biological race. If this is an argument over semantics of using racist instead of bigot, then say so. Disagreeing over modern common usage doesn't really accomplish much or change things.

[commanderkai]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Although there has certainly been a move afoot to seperate race from ethnicity, it has not been altogether successful. Whether we like it or not, the modern use of the term racism includes ethnicity and is not simply referencing biological race. If this is an argument over semantics of using racist instead of bigot, then say so. Disagreeing over modern common usage doesn't really accomplish much or change things.

I might as well use your own words against you:

"Look up race, then get back to me. Clearly you need to read up a bit."

The modern use of the word racism has gone past speaking of national identities or political borders. If you really believe there is an American, a Canadian, a Mexican or a Brazilian race, then fine, that's your choice. I wouldn't get away with what you're arguing in a university paper of any sort.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

On top of this, Proc's comments about Germans does not state that he is SUPERIOR than Germans due to his lineage or national origin or genetics, but rather that he hates Germans because of past actions.

[Gunnair]

commanderkai commanderkai:

I might as well use your own words against you:

"Look up race, then get back to me. Clearly you need to read up a bit."

The modern use of the word racism has gone past speaking of national identities or political borders. If you really believe there is an American, a Canadian, a Mexican or a Brazilian race, then fine, that's your choice. I wouldn't get away with what you're arguing in a university paper of any sort.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

On top of this, Proc's comments about Germans does not state that he is SUPERIOR than Germans due to his lineage or national origin or genetics, but rather that he hates Germans because of past actions.

If modern common usage causes you so much intellectual umbrage, sit at your keyboard, tut tut if you must, then get over yourself. Whether you like it or not, common usage for the term has changed, and if for some inexplicable reason you find it grating on your nerves that labeling a guy who hates Jews as a racist is somehow demeaning the word that is used to label the guy who hates blacks a racist, then one might conclude your just itching for a forum bunfight.

So be it if that's your goal.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Race

Since we referencing definitions...

[Regina]

Back on topic please.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

If the situation was reversed, would it be okay for the activists to announce that one of their guys was getting a medal for killing 6 Israeli soldiers?

Frankly, I think you'd have no problem with this.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If the situation was reversed, would it be okay for the activists to announce that one of their guys was getting a medal for killing 6 Israeli soldiers?

Frankly, I think you'd have no problem with this.

That just goes to show that you don't know me one bit.

I've never said Israel shouldn't or doesn't have the right to award this guy a medal, I said it was a stupid thing to do it so publicly.

The basics of crisis communications are; a) respond quickly b) don't make a bigger mess than it already is. By shouting this from the rooftops, all they've done is give ammunition to their enemies. What does that accomplish? SWEET FUCK ALL. All this does is inflame an already bad situation.

Israel bitches and moans that everyone hates them and never gives them a fair shake in the media. It's because of boneheaded shit like this that that occurs.

Imagine if BP said after the well in the Gulf malfunctioned that they didn't really give a fuck about the environment and all they really wanted was to go on making billions selling oil. How do you think the public would have reacted? Not well.

Israel might have one of the best militaries in the world, but their PR department is run by the Three Stooges.

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If the situation was reversed, would it be okay for the activists to announce that one of their guys was getting a medal for killing 6 Israeli soldiers?

Frankly, I think you'd have no problem with this.

That just goes to show that you don't know me one bit.

I've never said Israel shouldn't or doesn't have the right to award this guy a medal, I said it was a stupid thing to do it so publicly.

The basics of crisis communications are; a) respond quickly b) don't make a bigger mess than it already is. By shouting this from the rooftops, all they've done is give ammunition to their enemies. What does that accomplish? SWEET FUCK ALL. All this does is inflame an already bad situation.

Israel bitches and moans that everyone hates them and never gives them a fair shake in the media. It's because of boneheaded shit like this that that occurs.

Imagine if BP said after the well in the Gulf malfunctioned that they didn't really give a fuck about the environment and all they really wanted was to go on making billions selling oil. How do you think the public would have reacted? Not well.

Israel might have one of the best militaries in the world, but their PR department is run by the Three Stooges.

I think, from the way this has been handled, that Israel really doesn't give a fuck what the world thinks.

So be it.

[bootlegga]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I thought you weren't going to respond to "anti-Israel protesters" like me any longer...

So what if Israel found some knives and slingshots? Last time I checked, possession of neither was a capital crime (except maybe in some dictatorships and Muslim countries perhaps). Like I said earlier, if Israel is scared of lead pipes and slingshots, it's time to get the fuck out of dodge, because the end is near.

Yeah well, you got me there.

As for the second part, this is what I love about you bootlegga. Whatever we say goes in one year and goes out the other. I love how you don't address the facts there were pre-made firebombs, or that some of the commandos had bullet wounds. You just keep to the selective weapon group of slingshots and knives. Whatever fits your arguement better I guess but what was reported to have to the addition of your selective group of weapons you ONLY choose to mention. Was firebombs, guns (either brought on board themselves or taken from captive commandos). There were a variety of more dangerious weapons than just bars, knives and slingshots.

However what you fail to realise or what you are failing to understand which is what everybody here has been trying to get you to do is. While a metal bar in general vs a soldier doesn't seem like much of a threat. You are not including the facts these soldiers were heavily outnumbered 20 to 1. Try defending yourself with 20 guys all hitting you with a metal bar and yes even slinging rocks at you in the process. Btw, the slingshots were used to hit the soldiers AS they were grappling down. I guess to make them fall? Which the fall itself is there weapon, as it was there intent. Than we get to the firebombs in which there is a video of one being thrown on the ship at a soldier. Than there is knives, there is a video of a commando trying to get away from all the dudes beating him and some "activst" comes behind him and stabs him in the back. The soldier wasn't pointing a gun, he had no weapons in his hand. He was just being cornered and was trying not to get hit. Than there is the unexplained bullet holes that some lucky commando got. In which in the reports according to the commandos. They were taking gun fire, from both weapons smuggled by them to begin with and weapons taken from captured commandos. Even some activists version side with this as there were reports of guns being thrown overboard as soon as the commandos took control of the situation.

Yet you choose to IGNORE ALL OF THIS, you only choose to state they were harmless bystandards with only slingshots and knives? Against commandos with paintball guns who were just there to calmy investigate the ship and would have used riot tactics if they got violent. They diddn't expect them to be prepared with all listed above, neither did they expect there would be so many. I guess Israel just assumed these aid groups only let on sane people who actually just wanted to help by delivering aid to gaza. Not start a conflict by assaulting there soldiers and claiming to be victims despite video evidence otherwise.

$1:

In one year an out the other?

If you say so!

The point is that it's you who can't understand, not the other way around.

The Israelis started this, boarding a ship in international waters. PERIOD.
That's the initial aggression.

Had they let the ship through (like others) we wouldn't be talking about this, now would we? It would have been business as usual.

But they didn't. They went in, looking to bully some protesters and got far more than they bargained for. The protesters firing slingshots (Oh the humanity!) is no different than sailors on freighters firing water cannons at Somali pirates trying to board their ship. Anything that happens afterwards is a direct result of their own actions. The Israeli boarders admitted carrying pistols, so who's to say that one of them didn't take one off one of the early boarders who was incapacitated and taken below deck? I'm not justifying it at all, but I do understand the rationale behind the hostile response the Israelis got.

Your POV is ridiculous. You're upset that armed soldiers got shot before they themselves could shoot the protesters. That's like me stabbing you and then getting mad that hit me with a bat afterwards. If I instigate violence against someone, anything that happens to me after that is my fault. After all, if I had just walked by you on the street, you would have had no reason to hit with a bat, now would you?

And I don't give a rats ass about the "weapons" that this ship was carrying. It's not like they were carrying WMD, tanks, or something that would really threaten Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip. Again, if Israel is concerned about knives, slingshots, gas masks and a few homemade firebombs, while they have gunships, tanks, automatic weapons and body armour, then it's time to abandon the Holy Land, because the writing is on the wall.

If and when the Israelis seize a vessel with some real weapons (mortar tubes, rifles, RPGs, etc), then I'll applaud them. But this collection of "weapons" is a fucking joke.

I don't give a fuck if the Israelis were outnumbered 1000 to 1 in this incident, they started it when they decided to board a ship international waters and then bitch about the reception they got. Frankly, you should be happy that the protesters lack of weapons training (and conversely, the Israelis weapons proficiency) didn't cost them any KIA. After all, I've yet to hear of any Israelis with bullet holes in their heads...

[Bodah]

bootlegga bootlegga:

The Israelis started this, boarding a ship in international waters. PERIOD. That's the initial aggression.

Wrong.
Not the international waters arguement again. Sorry to break your bubble but in the case of when a vessel is approaching a blockade. International waters is where vessels are legally able to be boarded, go ahead look it up.

They did nothing wrong. The provocateurs willing to die for a little PR good or bad did though.

[BartSimpson]

Gunnair Gunnair:

I think, from the way this has been handled, that Israel really doesn't give a fuck what the world thinks.

If Israel gave a f*** about what the world thought then there would be no Israel.

[Proculation]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I think, from the way this has been handled, that Israel really doesn't give a fuck what the world thinks.

If Israel gave a f*** about what the world thought then there would be no Israel.

[Proculation]

hahahahhahahahaha

[Proculation]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

I think, from the way this has been handled, that Israel really doesn't give a fuck what the world thinks.

If Israel gave a f*** about what the world thought then there would be no Israel.

There's also this expression, (not sure about the words but it's something like that):

If Muslim countries disarm, there's no more war.
If Israel disarms, there's no more Israel.