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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:01 am
 


Point of discussion: If the Maritime wasn't a mere 'coast guard' before, it will be now:

http://www.globaltvbc.com/world/Cash+st ... story.html

Canada will be defended by nine ships? :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:13 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Point of discussion: If the Maritime wasn't a mere 'coast guard' before, it will be now:

http://www.globaltvbc.com/world/Cash+st ... story.html

Canada will be defended by nine ships? :roll:


That really hurts to read. Canada had a proud naval history having the 3rd largest navy after world war II but now it seems that the most technically advanced frigates in the world are expendable. Guess it's time to go to Canadian Tire and buy some canoes and bows and arrows. Sad, sad news for a once proud navy


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:30 am
 


This is as laughable as our early navy days where we had two ships, one of which was called "Rainbow".


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:22 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Gunnair Gunnair:
I would not have thought cheerleading Bart as he childishly invokes the standard cliches that insult all of the service as being worthy of you.


I say the same thing about the swabbies in the USN if it makes you feel any better. It's mostly good natured. :wink:


Off topic. All this blue water talk is embrassing. Being in Coast Gurad should have been seeing the world.
But, got to see a lot of Martime Service hospitals. Someone has to keep these people healthy and afloat.
Those big brick buildings don't travel well.

Don't usally have time like this to burn or indulge myself on net. Weather is crazy. 90 plus percent humidity. 80c with 25 plus winds from the southwest.
Used to be able to spend 10/12 hours on a tractor in this. No more.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:04 pm
 


PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Take this to PM if you want to discuss further



Frankly, after days of punch in the nuts briefs and banging my head on the table in disbelief, I just don't feel like it.

Leave it at that.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:07 pm
 


Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
This is as laughable as our early navy days where we had two ships, one of which was called "Rainbow".


That's actually not really laughable as we were just starting out. What was laughable was the Post WWI navy that consisted of the cruiser Aurora and the destroyers Patrician and Patriot. In the late twenties and early thirties, it was the Champlain and Vancouver - that's it save for a couple of trawlers.


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:06 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:
This is as laughable as our early navy days where we had two ships, one of which was called "Rainbow".


That's actually not really laughable as we were just starting out. What was laughable was the Post WWI navy that consisted of the cruiser Aurora and the destroyers Patrician and Patriot. In the late twenties and early thirties, it was the Champlain and Vancouver - that's it save for a couple of trawlers.


Yeah, some people here bitch about the small size of the armed forces, but few realize that even as small as they are these days, that they're far stronger than most other peacetime forces we've had (unless you count the Cold War as peace).


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:04 am
 


Why are people bitching at eachother over what is really small beans when what is really the biggest enemy of the navy (and the CF as a whole) is a government system, not just any one party, that refuses to give what is needed financially for the navy to be effective?

Aswell more aggressive recruitment pocicies, both within the CF and at the federal level, need to be instituted to get the numbers neccisary to man all the equipment we already have, not withstanding the extra equipment (and in turn extra manpower) we need to actually defend this country.

More agressive policies towards procurement, again both within the CF and at the federal level, need to be implimented. Taking 15 years to develop and procure a tac-vest, which is basically a mesh vest with pouches sewn on, is outright rediculous, especially for such a low-tech piece of kit. I can't imagine what it is like for the navy trying to procure billion-dollar ships or the airforce trying to procure billion-dollar fleets of aircraft. A system where when the CF identifies a lack of capabilities, or an area where capabilities could be improved, identifies what can fill that gap or improvement, or identifies what research needs to be done to develop the appropriate equipment to fullfill that gap or improvement, and then says, "We need this," followed by the government saying "here is the dough" would be fucking awesome. Examples would be the Leo 2 purchase or the Chinook puchase for Afghanistan. A grave need was identified, the military said it was needed, and the government provided. Only gripe from this soldier is that there aren't enough to go around fairly to all three battlegroups.

Now, those were wartime purchases. In peacetime, the government and military should be frank with eachother about what the present and future threats are. Big ones that personally come to my mind are Russia, China, domestic terrorism, and even our allies like Denmark and America who may seek to intrude without permission at their own whim.

Once the threats are identified, military brass who actually know what they are doing, aswell as the minister of defence and his counterpart in the opposition, should come up with effective yet realistic goals for countering those threats on terms of numbers, equipment, and policies over the short, mid, and long term. A massive draft plan for Canadian defence for the next 5 years, 10, and 25, which is updated every 5 years based on the current threats or future percieved threats. Once the draft plan is drawn up, it is given not just to the government, but to the opposition party, who both sign the appropriate paperwork that commits them to providing for the needs as identified in the draft plan in either for a set number of years (something like a 15-25 year term) or indefinitally. That way you don't have the boom-bust cycle as you see in the military now where things are cut down to nothing for 10 years, then you need huge, over-inflated numbers to build back up again, where a stable cashflow over the years would have kept things effective and stable, and in the long run is cheaper.

And frankly, I'm a big advocate of more numbers, and firmly believe that if the navy can't even man the ships we currently have, nevermind the extra we would likely need to defend ourselves on our own, that we need a reg force with atleast 250 000 people... Not the current 70 000 or so we have now.

How to get those numbers is another big diatribe I don't feeling like posting tonight (or this morning for you guys I guess :P )

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:41 am
 


I was rather surprised to hear this on the news the other day, as one of the reasons I support this government has been their strong support of all the military. I see this as a definite step backward at a time when we need a good strong navy, if for no other reason than to patrol our Artic waters.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:20 am
 


Hopefully this is a lesson for you dude. COnservatives are no better or worse then the rest of em.


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