[HyperionTheEvil]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

Look it up yourself. Or pay me $150/hour and I'll be your research assistant since you can't seem to find the info yourself.

As usual you have no relevant facts and present a tirade as argument. Much like indians generally

[HyperionTheEvil]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

acidcomplex acidcomplex:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

It is shameful that you neglect your own laws and own promises when it comes to First Nation people.

As is equally disgusting that the First Nation peoples neglect our "white man" laws. Where does it say you can leave your baby out in the cold on the reserve to freeze to death, or that chiefs can use the payments made to them for a whole reserve on booze and new SUVs?. Yeah go ahead and stand there and tell me it doesn't happen. Iv seen first hand proof of it so nothing you can say will change my mind and what iv seen. haven't seen it? Hit up even one reseve in Alberta and tell me I'm wrong

So are you saying it is only Indians breaking laws? Is it only some of our politicians breaking laws or do white people break laws too? If you paint us all the same by bringing up that stupid motherfucker who let his kids freeze then maybe I can paint you with the same brush as Bernando and Holomoka. Are all you white people murderers and perverts. Of course not.

Don't paint me, my family and my Chief in the same light as the few of our people who fuck up. There are scores of good people for every criminal and corrupt politician - who just want to be treated fairly, have jobs and nice cars and own houses and pay taxes...and still fight for you to honour your treaties with us and your promises to us and to be treated fairly in business and in the workplace.

Is it wrong for Natives to ask for consultation when our water supply, hunting areas and air quality might be a concern for us due to development? Is it wrong for us to ask you to uphold the laws you have in place to ensure this sort of consultation takes place?

The difference being is that Holmoka and Bernardo we're jugded by the same laws that Canadians are judged, Indians don't want that, they want hand-outs and special treatment becuase of the colur of thier skin? - How racist is that?

Frankly the 'you owe us' line is getting more and more tired now than it was, even more tired from the time of David Ahenakew and the road blocks in Ontario where indians tried to murder a cop and physially assaulted a retired couple.

You really expect or think theat Canadians are going to just give you you (or in indians terms, pay what they in thier imginations are 'owed') Espcially now when the economy is in crisis?

Tell you what you problem is.

you

That's right, you , your people and their self created problem of the Culture of Victimhood. It wouldn't matter if Candian Taxpayes poured 10's of billions of dollars into the DNIA , you woul simply want more becuase your people have becoe so accustomed to handouts that actually going out to earn it on the same level and basis as other Canadians that only a very few actually do it. An essence of that problem is life on the reserves, for self inflicted reasons indians have sent themselves into a downward spiral. Corrpution, nepotism, seem to overule basic common humanity in many cases. Hence the case with the tortured then murdered young girl. A cloak of silence which is reinforced by your culture of victimhood leads people to no talk to police and legal authorites. Try telling me that people on that reeserve didn;t know that was going on for months if not years....



As a rule Canadians have no problem upholding the law, the problem you've created for yourself is that you want the laws only applied selectively and only when they benefit you. When your people finally 'get it' and start moving into the 21 century where ones income is based upon what you earn at work then perhaps you and your people will understand

[Donny_Brasco]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

Look it up yourself. Or pay me $150/hour and I'll be your research assistant since you can't seem to find the info yourself.

As usual you have no relevant facts and present a tirade as argument. Much like indians generally

Relevant fact #1 – Consultation occurs very frequently when development occurs. With farmers, urbanites, other businesses etc...

Relevant fact #2 – Oftentimes these consultations lead to cash being paid by the developers to those being affected negatively by the development.

Relevant Fact #3 – Development of the oilsands in Alberta may affect the communities near where the development takes place.

Relevant Fact #4 – These people have every right (and then some) to have concerns about their livelihoods, water, food supply etc...the same as every other Canadian faced with the same situation. They also have every right to look out for their best interests – the same as every other Canadian – regardless of weather that involves a cash payment for the inconvenience this sort of development may cause.

Relevant Fact #5 – Your arguments that Natives are somewhat less deserving of this consultation process is based on your flawed, racist view of the process. These people deserve the same concessions and treatment as any other Canadian in the same situation.

If it is a white farmer asking the oil company for compensation for digging a pipeline through his field is it still a cash grab? What about a small business affected by he building of a skyscraper across the street, or a grandmother who has to move because a freeway is going to run through her front yard?
The article clearly states that the Indians have the right to be consulted. If you do not believe that there are many thousands of Natives who hunt and fish for food then go up north and take a look for yourselves.

Arguing that Natives deserve less then every Canadians is racist. Are you a racist?

Put some facts together instead of your pitiful questions and meaningless personal viewpoints before you further waste my time with your nonsense.

[Donny_Brasco]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

The difference being is that Holmoka and Bernardo we're jugded by the same laws that Canadians are judged, Indians don't want that, they want hand-outs and special treatment becuase of the colur of thier skin? - How racist is that?

Speculation - You have no idea what Indians want.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Frankly the 'you owe us' line is getting more and more tired now than it was, even more tired from the time of David Ahenakew and the road blocks in Ontario where indians tried to murder a cop and physially assaulted a retired couple.

So the million Indians in Canada are all just like David A and a few of the protesters at Caledonia? How narrow-minded. Has Ahenakew been teaching you how to be prejudice?

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

You really expect or think theat Canadians are going to just give you you (or in indians terms, pay what they in thier imginations are 'owed') Espcially now when the economy is in crisis?

Actually it is in the Constitution, the Treaties and hundreds of court cases that we do have rights and you do have obligations to Indians - and it is your imagination that has run a little wild thinking you can take those rights away from us.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Tell you what you problem is.

you

No your problem is me. And I'm not going away.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

That's right, you , your people and their self created problem of the Culture of Victimhood. It wouldn't matter if Candian Taxpayes poured 10's of billions of dollars into the DNIA , you woul simply want more becuase your people have becoe so accustomed to handouts that actually going out to earn it on the same level and basis as other Canadians that only a very few actually do it. An essence of that problem is life on the reserves, for self inflicted reasons indians have sent themselves into a downward spiral. Corrpution, nepotism, seem to overule basic common humanity in many cases. Hence the case with the tortured then murdered young girl. A cloak of silence which is reinforced by your culture of victimhood leads people to no talk to police and legal authorites. Try telling me that people on that reeserve didn;t know that was going on for months if not years....

As a rule Canadians have no problem upholding the law, the problem you've created for yourself is that you want the laws only applied selectively and only when they benefit you. When your people finally 'get it' and start moving into the 21 century where ones income is based upon what you earn at work then perhaps you and your people will understand

Ok, pay fair market value for the land you live on to us - in lieu of the Treaties, and we'll shut up.

Oh wait, you fail to recognize your own laws and other case law that recognizes out title to this land. You further fail to recognize that the Treaties that were signed are binding contracts that are enshrined in the Canadian Constitution.

Until you pay for (in full) and "earn" the land you live on no argument you present here will superseded our rights, which have been upheld by the SCC and which are written into Canadian law and even protected by international laws and treaties.

Like I said, I'll keep working on getting my people working if you shut the fuck up and keep paying your bills. Actually you have no choice. I do, maybe I'll move back to the rez and let you pay my bills too. That would make you happy wouldn't it?

[HyperionTheEvil]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

[
Like I said, I'll keep working on getting my people working if you shut the fuck up and keep paying your bills. Actually you have no choice. I do, maybe I'll move back to the rez and let you pay my bills too. That would make you happy wouldn't it?

Actually i'll just keep telling people that indians are thier own worst enemy. You would be highly surprised at how many everyday Canadians are fed up with the indians shooting themsleves in the foot and then expecting us to pull you out yet another self created problem. So while we work, watch our money especially in a reccesion we do take note of people who are constantly having thier hand out for something while earining nothing.

So please do, move back to the Rez. Go on welfare, it's just make the case stronger day by day. And everyday, a little bit a time the idea that Canadian Taxpayers 'owe' you something gets chipped awaye. Everytime one of your brightest leaders is shown for being an anti-semite, everytime a young girl is tortured and murdered on one of your precious reserves, it simply highlights that the problem doesn't come Canada or Canadians. It higlights that no matter how much money your given, the real problem originates with the indians themselves, and that they have to resolve it themselves.


You've brought yoursleves to the brink of ruin, and everytime you demand more money, you lose a little more of the everyday Canadian audience that once suported you. But now seeing themselves in finicially tight times, wonder exatcly what benefit do they get themselves that seem to fow and disppear into the system.

My advice is to carry on doing what you're doing. So while you may not care for me, you actually serve my purpose. An example of a man , representitive of his people , who wants much for nothing. Please continue carry on with the fiction that because you beleive you own the land, that that cannot change. Politics is an odd thing, what may have seemd sacrosanct only a short time ago can sometimes become very possible now. It doesn't take much to move Canadians, they're moderate by inclination, and recent behaviour by indians has been anything but, Caledonia, Christopher Pauchay, Phoenix Sinclair to only name a few. Because indians cannot accept responsbility for thier own acts they lash out at the 'Governmnet', and Canadians as a whole. The more you do the more disconnected everyday Canaidans become with the the problem you've created.

[Donny_Brasco]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Actually i'll just keep telling people that indians are thier own worst enemy. You would be highly surprised at how many everyday Canadians are fed up with the indians shooting themsleves in the foot and then expecting us to pull you out yet another self created problem. So while we work, watch our money especially in a reccesion we do take note of people who are constantly having thier hand out for something while earining nothing.

I would be surprised. Please provide me some stats. Oh, that's right, these are just your personal thoughts and you have no clue how miniscule the amount of people who agree with you are.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

So please do, move back to the Rez. Go on welfare, it's just make the case stronger day by day. And everyday, a little bit a time the idea that Canadian Taxpayers 'owe' you something gets chipped awaye. Everytime one of your brightest leaders is shown for being an anti-semite, everytime a young girl is tortured and murdered on one of your precious reserves, it simply highlights that the problem doesn't come Canada or Canadians. It higlights that no matter how much money your given, the real problem originates with the indians themselves, and that they have to resolve it themselves.

Funny thing is there were no handouts before your forefathers arrived. Handouts are a white thing. Look - even the rich white folk take private jets to get theirs.

And I guess your myopic mind fails to see the changes over the last five decades and the transition Native folks have made away from the reserves, into schools and jobs and into society. In 1970 you could count First nations university grads on 1 hand. Now there are thousands. You’re a fucking retard if you expect us to break down your barriers in a few weeks or years after what like-minded white people have put my people through.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

You've brought yoursleves to the brink of ruin, and everytime you demand more money, you lose a little more of the everyday Canadian audience that once suported you. But now seeing themselves in finicially tight times, wonder exatcly what benefit do they get themselves that seem to fow and disppear into the system.

Get some stats, I'd say more people understand where we are coming from then agree with your slanted ethnocentric views. If they didn't then your perverted view of what should would and could happen would be more like reality.

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

My advice is to carry on doing what you're doing. So while you may not care for me, you actually serve my purpose. An example of a man , representitive of his people , who wants much for nothing. Please continue carry on with the fiction that because you beleive you own the land, that that cannot change. Politics is an odd thing, what may have seemd sacrosanct only a short time ago can sometimes become very possible now. It doesn't take much to move Canadians, they're moderate by inclination, and recent behaviour by indians has been anything but, Caledonia, Christopher Pauchay, Phoenix Sinclair to only name a few. Because indians cannot accept responsbility for thier own acts they lash out at the 'Governmnet', and Canadians as a whole. The more you do the more disconnected everyday Canaidans become with the the problem you've created.

Wow, for those of you who are psychology students you will note this is a classic case of "mirroring". The image projected here tries to cast doubt on our rock solid legal entitlement to most of Canada. Indian's legal entitlement stretches back hundreds of years, and no matter what drugs you take or fantasy you dream up the SCC upholds Aboriginal title time and time again.

Wanting much or nothing means you think you can ignore your obligations to us, and please point to some legal facts that concur with YOUR sense of entitlement to the land you live on.

Again, you have no choice. Most Canadians recognize that there is an obligation. Most Canadians recognize that there is progress away from the devastation of forces assimilation through the reserve system and residential schools.

Ya, we have some work to do, and assholes like yourself who keep re-hashing stereotypes and creating bad will for our people and families do nothing to serve anyone's interest.

[Zipperfish]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Actually i'll just keep telling people that indians are thier own worst enemy. You would be highly surprised at how many everyday Canadians are fed up with the indians shooting themsleves in the foot and then expecting us to pull you out yet another self created problem. So while we work, watch our money especially in a reccesion we do take note of people who are constantly having thier hand out for something while earining nothing.

So please do, move back to the Rez. Go on welfare, it's just make the case stronger day by day. And everyday, a little bit a time the idea that Canadian Taxpayers 'owe' you something gets chipped awaye. Everytime one of your brightest leaders is shown for being an anti-semite, everytime a young girl is tortured and murdered on one of your precious reserves, it simply highlights that the problem doesn't come Canada or Canadians. It higlights that no matter how much money your given, the real problem originates with the indians themselves, and that they have to resolve it themselves.

I think anti-semitism and racism is alive and well off the reserve too. Bigotry is not sole purview of the indians, as you seem more than willing to demonstrate. Nor is "child torture and murder." Actually, I believe that sexual and physical abuse of Indian children was quite common at the mandatory residential schools we forced some natives to attend.

$1:

You've brought yoursleves to the brink of ruin, and everytime you demand more money, you lose a little more of the everyday Canadian audience that once suported you. But now seeing themselves in finicially tight times, wonder exatcly what benefit do they get themselves that seem to fow and disppear into the system.

My advice is to carry on doing what you're doing. So while you may not care for me, you actually serve my purpose. An example of a man , representitive of his people , who wants much for nothing. Please continue carry on with the fiction that because you beleive you own the land, that that cannot change. Politics is an odd thing, what may have seemd sacrosanct only a short time ago can sometimes become very possible now. It doesn't take much to move Canadians, they're moderate by inclination, and recent behaviour by indians has been anything but, Caledonia, Christopher Pauchay, Phoenix Sinclair to only name a few. Because indians cannot accept responsbility for thier own acts they lash out at the 'Governmnet', and Canadians as a whole. The more you do the more disconnected everyday Canaidans become with the the problem you've created.

I think there are legitimate grievances. In virtually every indicator First Nations peoples are categorically--and often catastrophically--worse off than their counterparts. Child poverty, life expectancy, population in jail--the list goes on. I suppose that you could lay it all at their feet, but that conveniently ignores the history, from the cultural cataclysm of contact wiht Europeans, to forced relocations, wars, residential schools, broken treaties. The actions of the British, French and Canadian governments have often not been honourable wiht respect to aboriginals. Those actions, grand in scale, have repercussions that last generations.

While I agree that this instititutionalized victimhood does not work well for First Nations, when I see Canadian kids--ten years old and younger--huffing gasoline and wishing above all for death, that's something, as a Canadian, I have to accept responsibility for. I also agree that throwing money at the problem doesn't work. For all it's dazzle, money has an abysmal record of solving problems.

[acidcomplex]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

:)

So are you on wireless in the teepee? Or just "borrowing" your neighbours connection?

[HyperionTheEvil]

$1:

I would be surprised. Please provide me some stats. Oh, that's right, these are just your personal thoughts and you have no clue how miniscule the amount of people who agree with you are.

It's anectodal, but then again the conservatives won the last election. Do you think they're going to give you a lot more handouts?

$1:

Funny thing is there were no handouts before your forefathers arrived. Handouts are a white thing. Look - even the rich white folk take private jets to get theirs.

That's because there was nothing here but a few roaming bands nomads with skin tents. Any cities that you can show me, any printing presses, any libraries with written texts that you can show me that indians had?

$1:

And I guess your myopic mind fails to see the changes over the last five decades and the transition Native folks have made away from the reserves, into schools and jobs and into society. In 1970 you could count First nations university grads on 1 hand. Now there are thousands. You’re a fucking retard if you expect us to break down your barriers in a few weeks or years after what like-minded white people have put my people through.

It's not enough, considering that taxpayers are still handing out billions every year i would say that your people are doing so well. Thats' what happens when you hace a culture that put responsbility on everyone else but your own shoulders. Work harder.

$1:

Get some stats, I'd say more people understand where we are coming from then agree with your slanted ethnocentric views. If they didn't then your perverted view of what should would and could happen would be more like reality.

There ae still reserves out there, indians are suing for everything from oil sand to airwaves - airwaves???. It seems that the reaction for indians to get more money is not to earn it, but sue for it. but you've already admitted it's all about the money

$1:

Wow, for those of you who are psychology students you will note this is a classic case of "mirroring". The image projected here tries to cast doubt on our rock solid legal entitlement to most of Canada. Indian's legal entitlement stretches back hundreds of years, and no matter what drugs you take or fantasy you dream up the SCC upholds Aboriginal title time and time again.


...Wanting much or nothing means you think you can ignore your obligations to us, and please point to some legal facts that concur with YOUR sense of entitlement to the land you live on.

.....Again, you have no choice. Most Canadians recognize that there is an obligation. Most Canadians recognize that there is progress away from the devastation of forces assimilation through the reserve system and residential schools.

And the point I highlight here is the word you mentioned "entitlement" . Therein lies your problem. That way of thinking has led your people into a lifestyle of simply thinking that things should be coming there way, well...just because. You and your fellow indians should perhaps move away from the your autodidact habits in psychology and take a closer look at the problem at hand. The majority of Candians actually go out and work, they're useful members of society. They have jobs careers, pay thier taxes , follow the laws.Yet , here you are going on about the myth that we 'owe' you something.


And also I said, although you and your fellow indians may not realize it, Candians do know that always wanting for something for nothing doesn't work forever son. for whatever circles you run in they're probably more afraid of being labelled as a racist as you have labelled me. They won't tell you to your face that that they're weary of watching indians destroying themsleves and then getting blamed for it.

So what do they do, they do what law abiding people do. They vote, with the CPC government and the recession you cant on budget cuts to DNIA, you cant count on much smaller handouts, longer and longer negoatitaitons for these 'treaties'. The result is that your people will get mad. You'll attempt some blackmail by creat ing more roadblocks attack and harras more citizens. More bad press, more cases of children being murdered on reseves under the very eyes of the so-called 'elders'. More corruption, more nepotisism, more crimes, and yes even racism from your own leaders.So how exactly is the death of Phoenix sinclair, the hatred of David Ahenakew, the Virginia Fontaine Addictions scandl is the fault of the 'white man'?

$1:

Ya, we have some work to do, and assholes like yourself who keep re-hashing stereotypes and creating bad will for our people and families do nothing to serve anyone's interest

.

Yes you do have some work to do, work to bring your own people out a self inflicted situation. Perhaps in time you and your people will learn to stand on thier own two feet. It would be better for all of you in the end. And as for 're-hashing'

Kettle meet Pot

[Donny_Brasco]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

The majority of Candians actually go out and work, they're useful members of society. They have jobs careers, pay thier taxes , follow the laws.Yet , here you are going on about the myth that we 'owe' you something.

Last time I checked more than a majority of Native people were employed, many more in post secondary training and trade school, upgrading, self employed or doing other meaningful work contributing to the economy, society and paying taxes.
Of course you would not know that because your mamma said that all Indians are on welfare and in the jails.

It is too bad that I got to work all my life, pay taxes like every other Canadian, buy a home and raise my children with the likes of you and your bigoted friends insisting we are a drain on society.

Look at the comment above yours, another bigot assuming that just because I'm an Indian that cares about what our forefathers have taught us to believe, I have to put up with that racism here, assuming I'm living in a teepee stealing broadband because I'm an Indian. That is fucking sick, you people are sick.

And my kids have to go to school with your kids and hear the same thing from them. That is disgusting.

[Donny_Brasco]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

[
Yes you do have some work to do, work to bring your own people out a self inflicted situation. Perhaps in time you and your people will learn to stand on thier own two feet. It would be better for all of you in the end. And as for 're-hashing'

Like I said - fair market value or you can keep renting. Or go back home where they don't have Indians.

[PJB]

Donny..You make valid points and then shoot your mouth off about us going back home..I asked a question about hunting and you dodged it because those natives who hunt usually try to sell the meat! I know this for a fact as I have been approached on several occasions to buy meat or cheap smokes or whatever else my taxes subsidize for you and yours!

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB PJB:

Donny..You make valid points and then shoot your mouth off about us going back home..I asked a question about hunting and you dodged it because those natives who hunt usually try to sell the meat! I know this for a fact as I have been approached on several occasions to buy meat or cheap smokes or whatever else my taxes subsidize for you and yours!

Meat? Well what is wrong with that? You should buy it, nothing wrong with that. A guy gets off his ass and goes hunting and wants a few bucks (no pun intended) to put gas in his tank and a few groceries...isn't that why we all work? We have the right to hunt and fish for subsistence which includes paying bills and so forth. Would you rather he steal your sterio?

Smokes? Well that is one area I don't know much about. A little company near Duck Lake started up in the last few years making cigarettes - they are a little cheaper. I'm not sure if your talking about smuggled cigarettes.

How does any of this subsidise me? I don't hunt or smoke. Or do you just assume I'm a hunting, smoking welfare bum just because of the colour of my skin?

[PJB]

Donny..I am talking about natives who use their right to hunt out of season to sell the meat that they are supposed to be using for sustinance.

You don't hunt but yet you scream about traditional hunting lands! Good double standard..Just out of curiousity how much land has the nation that you belong to decided to claim back?

[fifeboy]

PJB PJB:

Donny..You make valid points and then shoot your mouth off about us going back home..I asked a question about hunting and you dodged it because those natives who hunt usually try to sell the meat! I know this for a fact as I have been approached on several occasions to buy meat or cheap smokes or whatever else my taxes subsidize for you and yours!

OK, now I need to get involved. I can, from 30 years experience, say that most of what you say here is a bit "off," like rancid fish. I have almost never been offered meat or fish for money! A lot of wild food has come my way from my aboriginal neighbors, but more than 90% of that was given as a gift. Sort of "Hi, I shot this moose and thought you might like some." The appropriate response was not "how much," but "come on in, the tea is on and I have some cookies somewhere around here." My son, who is Treaty, shot a moose last year. I got to his house a few days later and already the meat had been distributed among elders, friends and relatives. They had saved me some, but someone else needed it so they got it before me. Oh well! And I like moose meat. This whole thread stinks!