[EyeBrock]

themasta themasta:

neopundit neopundit:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Work for it laddy, like most of us have to. Or do you believe the state should provide for you?

How about you read the thread, ok? I mean, I know you're just looking for something of mine to oppose, but it may prevent you from looking like an idiot. Thanks.

Hahaha, pwned.

Sad is it not?

[Blue_Nose]

Sad that you can't simply read the context in which the comment was made and recognize sarcasm.

[EyeBrock]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Sad that you can't simply read the context in which the comment was made and recognize sarcasm.

Oh I can read. Nobody forces people to be poor or work for low wages. I have been there. I worked to get out of it.

But thanks for the input.

[Blue_Nose]

Read neopundit's post directly above the one you quoted and realize that's exactly what he's been arguing the whole time.

[neopundit]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Read neopundit's post directly above the one you quoted and realize that's exactly what he's been arguing the whole time.

Thank you.

[SprCForr]

neopundit neopundit:

That's absolutely wrong. If nobody wanted to be a ditchdigger, and ditches required digging, then the wages of ditchdiggers would rise. People would want to become ditch diggers.

Or some smart guy could stop being a cashier and invent an excavator and dig more ditches for less and really earn the ire of a socialist!

[neopundit]

SprCForr SprCForr:

Or some smart guy could stop being a cashier and invent an excavator and dig more ditches for less and really earn the ire of a socialist!

Touche.

[Canadian_Mind]

SprCForr SprCForr:

neopundit neopundit:

That's absolutely wrong. If nobody wanted to be a ditchdigger, and ditches required digging, then the wages of ditchdiggers would rise. People would want to become ditch diggers.

Or some smart guy could stop being a cashier and invent an excavator and dig more ditches for less and really earn the ire of a socialist!

That, or you happen to be a friend of the MWO of the local infantry platoon. Just offer the area requiring a ditch as a practice location for a daytime exercise of trench digging.

[EyeBrock]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

Sad that you can't simply read the context in which the comment was made and recognize sarcasm.

You know what? I scrolled all the way back and I realise I owe Neopundit an apology.

Neo, I read a few lines of pg 5 or 6 and miscontrued your message. I went off half-cocked and I was wrong.

Please accept my public apology.

[romanP]

neopundit neopundit:

romanP romanP:

The difference between Microsoft and WalMart is that Microsoft treats its workers VERY well. They get paid well, some of them even have leisure time and access to leisure and fitness facilities, and in the end Microsoft creates a product that helps other businesses get their work done. Microsoft employees probably get benefits, and if not they probably make enough money to pay for some other form of insurance.

WalMart also pays it's employees well. In fact, it pays them much more than the 0 dollars they'd be earning if WalMart wasn't there.

The only reason they're making zero dollars a lot of the time is because the skilled industry they previously worked in was undersold or bought out by WalMart. Subsistence wages made from unskilled labour that has no end product do not make for a strong economy.

$1:

All WalMart does is sell shit that was made by people in another country who did so in miserable working conditions for barely enough money to live.

To low income families who are quite happy to get low prices from WalMart.[/quote]

Families that would not have such low incomes if it weren't for WalMart destroying all of their local industries.

$1:

They often destroy local economies by underselling every business in town, so that skilled workers have no choice but to work a job they're more than overqualified for.

Rubbish. If they are underselling other businesses that means that consumers are getting lower prices.[/quote]

Lower prices at what cost?

$1:

I can't help it if Ma and Pa's groceries marks everything up 5% and WalMart sells shit on tiny margins. If you feel so bad, but stuff at WalMart and donate the difference to Ma and Pa. Crisis averted.

Perhaps you don't understand how money works. Small businesses owned by "Ma and Pa" bring money into their respective communities because "Ma and Pa" have taken the risk to invest in their community. WalMart doesn't pay its employees enough for anyone to do any such thing, only barely enough to make ends meet, provided they don't have any health problems. If they do, they're screwed.

"Ma and Pa's groceries" most likely bought produce from local farmers, also helping to maintain their local economy. WalMart is more likely to have everything shipped to them from 2,000 miles away, making everything they do bad for the environment as well.

$1:

Also, how are they displacing skilled workers?

WalMart doesn't have any. You don't need skilled labour to stand around looking like you want to kill yourself while you scan a thousand items an hour, or to stock shelves. These jobs are replacing what higher-earning knowledgeable local businesspeople provided to their community.

$1:

$1:

WalMart refuses to pay its workers any benefits or offer any health insurance whatsoever, which actually makes them a strain on the entire American economy.

Not true. Are they less than you're going to get working for the Big 3? Yeah, but they are better than nothing.

This probably only takes effect if you work enough hours. WalMart often gives its workers just under the amount of required hours, so that it doesn't have to pay benefits. Just because their website says something doesn't mean they aren't playing a slippery game of "I win, you lose."

[romanP]

OPP OPP:

romanP romanP:

OPP OPP:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OPP OPP:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

I know - China should really teach us miscreants a lesson and cut off trade with us.

Wal Mart would have to close up shop.

We'd need to open furniture factories, electronics factories, toy factories, auto parts suppliers, steel foundries, aluminum smelters, and etc. etc, etc. - gosh, we'd have to create hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of well-paying jobs to meet the consumer demand left wanting by the absence of China.

And forgive me if I'm not seeing a downside to telling China to f*** off and die.

What? I thought you loved the "free" market system. After all, wasn't that what America's all about?

Free markets require free competition and Wal Mart is anti-competitive and abusive of its workers in the extreme. Unpaid overtime is common at Wal Marts and Wal Mart will close up a store at a cost of millions before allowing the workers to unionize.

Wal Mart's just using the same system as all big business does, if we leave the worker issue aside. Microsoft isn't exactly meeting much competition and their standing could be compared to a monopoly.

The difference between Microsoft and WalMart is that Microsoft treats its workers VERY well. They get paid well, some of them even have leisure time and access to leisure and fitness facilities, and in the end Microsoft creates a product that helps other businesses get their work done. Microsoft employees probably get benefits, and if not they probably make enough money to pay for some other form of insurance.

WalMart does none of these things. All WalMart does is sell shit that was made by people in another country who did so in miserable working conditions for barely enough money to live. They often destroy local economies by underselling every business in town, so that skilled workers have no choice but to work a job they're more than overqualified for. WalMart refuses to pay its workers any benefits or offer any health insurance whatsoever, which actually makes them a strain on the entire American economy.

Maybe you didn't quite pick up on what I was trying to say. I bolded the part you should have read.

I don't think you can properly talk about WalMart in such a way while ignoring their labour issues. Through and through, they are anti-competitive and it seems the only way to stand up to them is to plead with and grovel at the feet of your local government to not let them build a store in your community. If they really want something, they just smash and grab.

Microsoft still has Apple to contend with, and ever more so these days. With their lack of ability to come up with a better OS than XP, which is not going to meet the needs of the generation of computers that is emerging (Vista is mostly just XP repackaged with a different memory manager (not one that works better, mind you), a window manager that eats up an unnecessarily stupid amount of RAM, and tighter DMCA controls. Many of its features still have major flaws that need to be fixed.), while OSX just keeps getting better every year or so. Microsoft's attempt to compete with the iPod is a joke. At best, you might see Microsoft relegated to the gaming industry in the near future, because that's the only area they seem to be able to keep up with.

[romanP]

neopundit neopundit:

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

Benefits are not included in employment with Walmart unless you work 34+ hours per week.

You may find this document from the Board of Directors interesting Link

How many other jobs offer benefits to people who work less than 34 hours?

34 hours is considered full time and you are entitled to benefits. I realize that WalMart uses this to schedule around the 34 hour stipulation, reducing benefits paid. But really, how much do people who work a completely unskilled job deserve? I thought that is what mimimum wage was? WalMart pays more than that.

WalMart usually does everything in its power to make sure its employees get 33 hours per week and then forces them to work overtime without pay. There is a reason WalMart stores disappear when its employees try to unionise, and it's because this kind of nonsense would never be allowed to happen under a unionised workforce.

As to the amount of money that unskilled labour "deserves", perhaps you should remember your flippant attitude toward the "Ma and Pa" industries that WalMart undersold or bought out, where those people were previously skilled workers.

[romanP]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

heh, is that a good enough reason to join the army and pray we go to war with china, so we free people can be given an opportunity to slaughter the oppressive bastards?

And I suggested that people join the army and kill the Chinese...when? I just don't want spend my money on them is all.

Don't get all up in arms to kill the Chinese too soon. It's not China's fault that WalMart is a bastard, Walmart is just exporting Chinese totalitarianism, along with the economic decrepitude that China's rural population faces.

Besides, with an economy so dependant on Chinese labour, where would we get most of our consumer goods if we started killing the Chinese? We need to rebuild our own manufacturing ability first.

[Canadian_Mind]

I was hoping my statement was over-the-top enough that people wouldn't take it 100 percent seriously. people shouldn't join the army to kill people, they should join it to protect people. Killing people when neccisary is just a part of that.

[romanP]

neopundit neopundit:

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

They (Walmart) keep most of their employees under 34 hours a week. Did I mention anything about Wages? No. I dont support walmart due to the fact that they support countries with Human Rights Atrocities. I also make a conscious decision before buying anything, by seeing where it is made first. Im just not a Capitalist thats all.

I know that, and said as much in my post. This is not a strategy WalMart invented. It is done by employers all over.

The argument is not whether or not WalMart invented it. Regardless of who did it first, WalMart is continuing to do it.

$1:

Did I mention anything about Human Rights Atrocities? No. (See what I did there?)

Yeah, you played the wilfully ignorant spin doctor. Not an accomplishment one should be proud of.

$1:

I'm glad you are afforded the luxury to pay more for items based on personal values. It is certainly within your right to do so. However, most of the world is not afforded that same luxury.

A lot of people might be able to afford that luxury if WalMart hadn't taken their skilled jobs away and replaced them with crap.