[andyt]

The majority may get it, and maybe the supreme court does too. but look at some of the nutbar laws that get passed by the states that are religiously driven. look at how every president has to be seen to be religious, i wonder if they really are. Imagine the outcry if a pres did not go to church, or heaven forbid, said he didn't believe. As we know, the majority can be dominated by a motivated minority. Just as in Iran, say, or Israel.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

More importantly, the US Supreme Court, despite whatever political bent each justice brings, tends to follow secularism in their decision making. They're able to separate their religious views from their judiciary duties. That's why this law will undoubtedly be struck down.

I disagree. The USSC stirred a hornet's nest with compelling people to buy Obamacare. Compelling people to perform an act that they find personally repugnant would create the impetus both for a political backlash and a Constitutional Amendment.

It also creates downstream legal impacts.

Religion is a protected status in the US.

If a workplace compels an employee (not the owner as in the bakery cases) to perform a religiously repugnant act then existing laws define that as religious discrimination and potentially hostile workplace.

Even if the employer is complying with the law or a court order.

I just don't see the USSC rendering that decision based on the downstream impacts and conflicts with employee protections that the liberal justices like Kagan and Sotomayor will surely uphold.

[Lemmy]

Religious freedom is different from state-authorized persecution of others on the basis of your religion, protected or otherwise.

Again, I'll happily wager you on the Supreme Court ruling on this law, should they hear it.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Religious freedom is different from state-authorized persecution of others on the basis of your religion, protected or otherwise.

Again, I'll happily wager you on the Supreme Court ruling on this law, should they hear it.

It is NOT 'religious persecution' when a Christian bakery refuses to bake a gay wedding cake due to their own religious views.

IT IS religious persecution to seek out a Christian baker and then force them to bake a gay wedding cake. Because the LGBT community gets a sadistic little thrill out of this kind of thing...fuck the Christians and all that.

A sentiment that PA9 illustrated quite handily.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It is NOT 'religious persecution' when a Christian bakery refuses to bake a gay wedding cake due to their own religious views.

IT IS religious persecution to seek out a Christian baker and then force them to bake a gay wedding cake. Because the LGBT community gets a sadistic little thrill out of this kind of thing...fuck the Christians and all that.

A sentiment that PA9 illustrated quite handily.

1. There's no such thing as a "gay wedding cake".

2. How does one know which bakeries are run by people of a certain religion?

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It is NOT 'religious persecution' when a Christian bakery refuses to bake a gay wedding cake due to their own religious views.

It is when Human Rights legislation says it is. Again, you're arguing about the world as you'd like it to be; I'm arguing about the way the world actually is.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

IT IS religious persecution to seek out a Christian baker and then force them to bake a gay wedding cake. Because the LGBT community gets a sadistic little thrill out of this kind of thing...fuck the Christians and all that.

Well, yeah, we've got two shit disturbers here, if an LGBT really did, as you say, "seek out" a particular Christian baker. But suppose they didn't target a disagreeable Christian baker but just happened upon him in honest hopes of buying a goddamn wedding cake. In any case, one of the shit-disturbers (intentional or other) has a legally defensible position. The other does not.

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

A sentiment that PA9 illustrated quite handily.

This is getting cyclical and, frankly, I've won this debate handily and am declaring myself the winner and standing down.

I wish the world were many things that it isn't too. But I'm also cognizant of the way things actually are. How does that old prayer go?: "Lord, grant me the strength to accept the things I can change..."

[Freakinoldguy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It is NOT 'religious persecution' when a Christian bakery refuses to bake a gay wedding cake due to their own religious views.

IT IS religious persecution to seek out a Christian baker and then force them to bake a gay wedding cake. Because the LGBT community gets a sadistic little thrill out of this kind of thing...fuck the Christians and all that.

A sentiment that PA9 illustrated quite handily.

1. There's no such thing as a "gay wedding cake".

Apparently there are.

0:

de5f24c23c8549c14bd1377e59d9d656.jpg [ 43.75 KiB | Viewed 83 times ]

Who knew?

But it's also apparent that not all members of the GLBT society are onboard with forcing people to do things they don't agree with.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gay ... f29d572c89

[BartSimpson]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

But it's also apparent that not all members of the GLBT society are onboard with forcing people to do things they don't agree with.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gay ... f29d572c89

$1:

“You are being a Nazi and forcing someone to bake a damn wedding cake for you when there are hundreds of other gays and lesbians who would gladly have your business.”

I agree with this man 100%.

[BartSimpson]

Lemmy Lemmy:

How does that old prayer go?: "Lord, grant me the strength to accept the things I can change...

...and the wisdom to know where to hide the bodies of the fools who pissed me off."

[OnTheIce]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

0:

de5f24c23c8549c14bd1377e59d9d656.jpg

Who knew?

Nothing about that cake is gay.

Cakes cannot be gay. Not possible. Cakes don't have a sexual preference.

A cake can be FOR gay people, but a cake itself cannot be gay.

And then we have knuckle-draggers like Bart going on about a "gay wedding cake" like making a cake for Bob and Steve makes it "gay".

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

And then we have knuckle-draggers like Bart going on about a "gay wedding cake"

I had no idea that you thought so many gay people were knuckle-draggers.

http://www.engaygedweddings.com/califor ... dding.html

I suppose you need to tell the gay bakeries in California that you're offended by their gay wedding cakes.

[raydan]

As usual, we seem to forget that the consumers have a lot of power. If a baker refuses to serve you because you're gay, go online and give him the review he deserves (tell the truth now). If you get support from the straight community and they take their business elsewhere, he just might start embracing the gay lifestyle.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

As usual, we seem to forget that the consumers have a lot of power. If a baker refuses to serve you because you're gay, go online and give him the review he deserves (tell the truth now). If you get support from the straight community and they take their business elsewhere, he just might start embracing the gay lifestyle.

Exactly!

And I'd be PISSED if someone were refused service at a place just because of who they are. Who they are is a CUSTOMER so long as they order a product or service that the enterprise provides.

But nothing is gained by seeking out a Christian business and then trying to force them to do something. To the contrary, every time this occurs the Christian always comes out ahead when other Christians start donating money to them and then driving their own business to those places.

I recall when the militant activists went after an Indiana pizza place the pizza place had to close due to the bad press and death threats from the 'tolerant' people but then reopened after they received over one million dollars in donations...or around eleven years revenue in the space of a few months.

[raydan]

So... are these Christian places going to start putting up signs?

"This is a Christian business... we do not serve gays... but we are open on Sunday"

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

So... are these Christian places going to start putting up signs?

"This is a Christian business... we do not serve gays... but we are open on Sunday"

They'd get into trouble for the middle part and I can only find one place in the USA that briefly had such a sign posted before they took it down on their own.

And I agree that there is no small hypocrisy in saying you can't perform a gay specific service due to your Christian faith but you're open on Sunday.

Props to those businesses that DO close on Sundays!