[andyt]

Pay into your pension funds - great. How much does the govt kick in? That's the part that would be reduced. You can kick in more if you like. Or, raise taxes to pay for your entitlements to which you are entitled.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

The big thing for govt employees is probably their rich pensions. Those need to be renegotiated. The Govt could set an example by submittig a bill to reduce the rich pensions that mp's get. That would be leadership. Taking a pay cut would help too.

I'm curious if you are making a broad generalization here or focusing on the sweet MP pensions they get after six years. My government pension won't be to bad when I get it, but it took 25 years of contributions and a lot of time away from my family to do it.

Frankly, I deserve it.

You paid into it, you're due what you agreed to. Doesn't mean that pension plans can't be change for new hires. Funny how when I come up with a bit of right wing dogma, that benefits are too high for govt workers, all of a sudden you guys turn all left on me. Same with OTI who wants his MTV tax loopholes. Those two bits are standard right wing policy, something I agree with if we're going to ever get or debt under control. I just think that the sacrifice should start at the top, rather than always the bottom, as opposed to the right wingers. If we're going to cut govt spending, cutting benefits for govt employees would have to be included in the mix.

You guys like to come off all hard ass righties, and that I'm a lefty dreamer. Threaten your own little socialist slice of the pie tho, and it's 180 time.

I noticed you didn't actually answer my quite reasonable question, opting instead for one of your typical fuckhead responses.

What a shock that anything threatening your nonsensical utopian ideals would cause you to wig out again and throw rationale to the wind in favour of more of the same of Andyt - socialist/communist/capitalist-can't-make-up-my-mind-what-I-want-except-as-long-as-I-don't-have-to-work-real-hard-for-it retard.

Fuck off already.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Prove that I'm the partisan here - please point to one bill the Conservatives have passed since May that is not high on their supporters list. If I'm wrong I'll admit it - but as I said, AFAIK, I haven't seen him do squat in regards to the economy.

So far, he's passed C-2, a bill to amend the Criminal Code, C-3 which appears to mostly deal with social programs - including authorizing $85 million in grants to organziations, C-6, a bill to force the posties back to work, C-8, C-9 & C-29, bills to give money to the royal family, C-13 which includes income tax changes and creates new tax credits, C-16 a bill on military judges service time, C-18 which will kill the Wheat Board, C-22 a bill dealing with a native band, and S-3 and S-1002, bills dealing with Quebec.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see NOTHING that deals with deficit fighting in that list. Close to half of them are no doubt typical taking care of business stuff (like C-8, C-9, C-16, C-22 and C-29), but all of the rest pretty much follow the Conservative party line. I'll freely admit I didn't read each and every one, but I did scan the ones that deal with the budget.

Those, of course are just the ones that have gotten royal assent. There are others amending the Criminal Code, fixing term lengths of senators, eliminating the the LGR, and so on.

Maybe I've got my 'liberal' blinders on, but those ALL seem like fairly/highly important issues to Conservative party supporters - so I doubt I'm the partisan one here.

But if you can find some bills (heck even one would surprise me) in the 66 he's introduced in this sitting (the past 6 months) that actually fights the deficit and doesn't increase spending or add to the deficit AND doesn't push his own party policies, I'll admit I'm wrong - although odds are even if you can, they'll be far outnumbered by the partisan ones he has passed/introduced.

Heck, I'm in such a good mood to day that I'll even give you a link;

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/Home.as ... ive&Page=1

I appreciate the link, although it appears I'm the only one here who's read it.

Had you looked at Page 1, you would have noticed:

C-3, Supporting Vulnerable Seniors and Strengthening Canada's Economy Act

C-13, Keeping Canada's Economy and Jobs Growing Act

C-14, Improving Trade Within Canada Act

Add to that the new agreement Harper did with Obama for better trade, travel and security with the US.

And finally, you're forgetting the massive Economic Action Plan.

To say that Harper has done nothing is nothing short of being disingenuous and partisan to what's actually taking place around you.

A strong economy brings in more money for the government and in turn, helps us balance the books.

Secondly, the Conservatives got a MAJORITY government. If course they're going to push through bills that their supporters voted them in for.

People vote in Parties based on their ideas and platforms. You follow through on those as best you can. You act like this is some unusual process.

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

I'm curious if you are making a broad generalization here or focusing on the sweet MP pensions they get after six years. My government pension won't be to bad when I get it, but it took 25 years of contributions and a lot of time away from my family to do it.

Frankly, I deserve it.

You paid into it, you're due what you agreed to. Doesn't mean that pension plans can't be change for new hires. Funny how when I come up with a bit of right wing dogma, that benefits are too high for govt workers, all of a sudden you guys turn all left on me. Same with OTI who wants his MTV tax loopholes. Those two bits are standard right wing policy, something I agree with if we're going to ever get or debt under control. I just think that the sacrifice should start at the top, rather than always the bottom, as opposed to the right wingers. If we're going to cut govt spending, cutting benefits for govt employees would have to be included in the mix.

You guys like to come off all hard ass righties, and that I'm a lefty dreamer. Threaten your own little socialist slice of the pie tho, and it's 180 time.

I noticed you didn't actually answer my quite reasonable question, opting instead for one of your typical fuckhead responses.

What a shock that anything threatening your nonsensical utopian ideals would cause you to wig out again and throw rationale to the wind in favour of more of the same of Andyt - socialist/communist/capitalist-can't-make-up-my-mind-what-I-want-except-as-long-as-I-don't-have-to-work-real-hard-for-it retard.

Fuck off already.[/quote]

I did answer your question, but you chose not to see it. Benefits for govt workers are too rich - many people seem to agree with that. Of course the MPs should set an example, as I said earlier. But benefits need to be reduced across the board for govt workers if we're going to try to make government pay for itself. As we need to increase taxes and look at what social programs to cut. It's all part of the mix. But you guys seem to not want to give up anything yourselves, while complaining about all the others that get govt benefits.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

So how do you propose to go about addressing the deficit/debt?

By stimulating the economy and cutting back spending where able.

Nothing you suggest will accomplish this.

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Prove that I'm the partisan here - please point to one bill the Conservatives have passed since May that is not high on their supporters list. If I'm wrong I'll admit it - but as I said, AFAIK, I haven't seen him do squat in regards to the economy.

So far, he's passed C-2, a bill to amend the Criminal Code, C-3 which appears to mostly deal with social programs - including authorizing $85 million in grants to organziations, C-6, a bill to force the posties back to work, C-8, C-9 & C-29, bills to give money to the royal family, C-13 which includes income tax changes and creates new tax credits, C-16 a bill on military judges service time, C-18 which will kill the Wheat Board, C-22 a bill dealing with a native band, and S-3 and S-1002, bills dealing with Quebec.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see NOTHING that deals with deficit fighting in that list. Close to half of them are no doubt typical taking care of business stuff (like C-8, C-9, C-16, C-22 and C-29), but all of the rest pretty much follow the Conservative party line. I'll freely admit I didn't read each and every one, but I did scan the ones that deal with the budget.

Those, of course are just the ones that have gotten royal assent. There are others amending the Criminal Code, fixing term lengths of senators, eliminating the the LGR, and so on.

Maybe I've got my 'liberal' blinders on, but those ALL seem like fairly/highly important issues to Conservative party supporters - so I doubt I'm the partisan one here.

But if you can find some bills (heck even one would surprise me) in the 66 he's introduced in this sitting (the past 6 months) that actually fights the deficit and doesn't increase spending or add to the deficit AND doesn't push his own party policies, I'll admit I'm wrong - although odds are even if you can, they'll be far outnumbered by the partisan ones he has passed/introduced.

Heck, I'm in such a good mood to day that I'll even give you a link;

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/Home.as ... ive&Page=1

I appreciate the link, although it appears I'm the only one here who's read it.

Had you looked at Page 1, you would have noticed:

C-3, Supporting Vulnerable Seniors and Strengthening Canada's Economy Act

C-13, Keeping Canada's Economy and Jobs Growing Act

C-14, Improving Trade Within Canada Act

Add to that the new agreement Harper did with Obama for better trade, travel and security with the US.

And finally, you're forgetting the massive Economic Action Plan.

To say that Harper has done nothing is nothing short of being disingenuous and partisan to what's actually taking place around you.

A strong economy brings in more money for the government and in turn, helps us balance the books.

Secondly, the Conservatives got a MAJORITY government. If course they're going to push through bills that their supporters voted them in for.

People vote in Parties based on their ideas and platforms. You follow through on those as best you can. You act like this is some unusual process.

Yeah - you can read - but apparently only the titles...

First off, C-14 hasn't passed, and is only in the first reading stage, but fair enough, maybe that will help somewhere down the road. Why not push this through instead of a bill to kill the LGR or the Wheat Board? But in your books - that's not partisan - that's business as usual.

Like I said I only scanned these, which I'm sure you could have too, but didn't bother to.

Neither one has anything appearing to be geared towards deficit reduction. C-3 gives $85 million total to Genome Canada and the Canada Youth Business Foundation, and grants the Royal Canadian Legion a rebate of 100% of GST paid on the cost producing poppies, gives close to a BILLION dollars in extra federal-provincial transfers, and amends legislation on insurance and financial institutions. Hmmm...

C-13 is even better, it creates all sorts of new tax credits (caregiver credit, children's arts credit, etc), increases monthly GST and CCTB payments, etc. It even increases deductions for oil sands companies...

Now, I'm not a lawyer or an economist, so I'll admit that there might be something buried in these bills that somewhere down the road will increase revenues or bolster the economy, on the surface however, it looks like just more of the same - cutting taxes and making the deficit worse.

His new deal with Obama is hardly impressive - if anything, it sold out our sovereignty, but hey, if it makes a few bucks for some rich Canadians, it must be okay, right?

And the Economic Action Plan - most of that ended last year, when Harper was in a minority government - and Flaherty recently said that more stimulus spending was OFF the table.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... a-flaherty

Finally, yes the Conservatives finally got themselves a minority - however under Canadian law, he's got four years before the next election (and a majority in the Senate to boot) - so there's no real rush for him to kill off the LGR, Wheat Board, cut political party subsidies, pass his omnibus crime bill, etc in the first six months of his mandate. It could easily have been done in the spring, or even next fall. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will Harper right-wing paradise.

Yes, he has a few things that MAY help out the economy in the long run, but his FOCUS has been almost entirely partisan politics...and that's without even mentioning how many times his party has invoked closure on bills in this session.

Whatever, as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Whatever, as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for the debate!

[uwish]

PS ok crooked face, where is the attacks on gay marriage now??? hum...still waiting...

typical fear mongering and coming from a guy who had one of the most corrupt tenures as the PM, I think the pot just called the kettle black!