[Lemmy]

Took care of that for you, Shep. "Too sin by sin by silence, when we should protest, makes cowards out of men." - Ella Wheeler Wilcox

[ShepherdsDog]

That covers most people in public office.

[Unsound]

I do wonder just how harmful it would be for a politician to start talking about these things...? It seems to me that most people I know have these same concerns about immigration and integration and would love to hear a pol talk about it in a realistic way. I wonder if that's just a reflection on the kind of people I hang out with, or if maybe a large number of canadians feel the same but are just scared to say it out loud.

[martin14]

Unsound Unsound:

I do wonder just how harmful it would be for a politician to start talking about these things...? It seems to me that most people I know have these same concerns about immigration and integration and would love to hear a pol talk about it in a realistic way. I wonder if that's just a reflection on the kind of people I hang out with, or if maybe a large number of canadians feel the same but are just scared to say it out loud.

I think most Canadians really dont see the problem yet, and 'small'
accomodations like kirpans and burkas arent really a big deal.
After all, we're free and stuff, right ?

The thing a lot of people miss is that it wont stop.

We now have the discussions about what is being taught in school,
other demands about food practises, being forced upon us by a small
but vocal and growing minority, which feeds other groups to do the same
when they see success.


In the future we will see continued conflict of Freedom of Religion
vs. the State Secular Norm, and it will only get worse.

We will see sharia law, re-entering.. mark my words,
that discussion is NOT over, some are just waiting for more numbers to come.
Other things like mosques having the call to prayer broadcast in the open,
and the school cirriculum continually rewritten.
In the meantime we continue to marginalize our aboriginal communities,
thinking that throwing more money at them will solve all.

And always throwing in the towel to the minorities will make us
a very fucked up country very quickly.. it has to stop.

Sadly, there are too many people who immediately start shouting racist whenever
anyone brings these issues up, which will keep the politicians from ever discussing it, until it is too late.

It is also what keep Canadians in fear of speaking about their own country.

[ShepherdsDog]

It's more a reflection of human nature. Most people will try and avoid conflict even if it has negative repercussions for them. Bullies know this, and that is exactly what these groups are. One individual or one small group can hold superior numbers hostage through intimidation. Until they are put in their place they will continue to behave like bullies.....and as Eyebrock pointed out earlier, you'll have ubercoward idiots that empower them by denying what is really going on,or claim that standing up to bullies makes us worse than they are.

[sandorski]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yep, look at how many people have emigrated to Canada from these countries.

There are a million Muslims in Canada according to the 2008 Census.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/01/31 ... ars-study/

According to the 2001 census, 300,000 Sikhs were in Canada 10 years ago. I think there maybe a few more Sikhs now.

I feel that millions is an appropriate estimation. As in more than one million.

Did you not know this stuff Sand? But you diss those who dare speak out and question our immigration policies?

Come on mate, do your research. Come back with an educated opinion. Don't just call us xenophobes or do the 'fail' thing. That's very high school and doesn't advance the debate.

Grossly incorrect. A handful have made certain requests. Do the Math.

[sandorski]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

See Sand, and no disrespect meant, people like you are a part of the problem.

tried to rep you but I wasn't allowed. People holding his beliefs are just as dangerous to democracy as the terrorists themselves.

Xenophobia is what is a danger to Democracy. Sorry, but you Fail.

[2Cdo]

sandorski sandorski:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

See Sand, and no disrespect meant, people like you are a part of the problem.

tried to rep you but I wasn't allowed. People holding his beliefs are just as dangerous to democracy as the terrorists themselves.

Xenophobia is what is a danger to Democracy. Sorry, but you Fail.

Once again my simple friend you are completely out of your league when discusing important topics with the adults and fall back to your grade school retort of "fail".

People like you who would sacrifice all for politically correct values deserve nothing but derision.

[sandorski]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

sandorski sandorski:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

tried to rep you but I wasn't allowed. People holding his beliefs are just as dangerous to democracy as the terrorists themselves.

Xenophobia is what is a danger to Democracy. Sorry, but you Fail.

Once again my simple friend you are completely out of your league when discusing important topics with the adults and fall back to your grade school retort of "fail".

People like you who would sacrifice all for politically correct values deserve nothing but derision.

Your retort is to Fail again?

There's nothing Politically correct about my position. It is a Principle upon which our Society is based. We have our Principles or we stop being Canadian. Choose wisely.

[2Cdo]

sandorski sandorski:

Your retort is to Fail again?

There's nothing Politically correct about my position. It is a Principle upon which our Society is based. We have our Principles or we stop being Canadian. Choose wisely.

Your principles are not Canadian but are in fact "stand for nothing and concede everything". Thus you are a threat to democracy in Canada, even though you are too ignorant to realise it!

[Lemmy]

sandorski sandorski:

Xenophobia is what is a danger to Democracy. Sorry, but you Fail.

Your fortune-cookie simplicities are the failure here. It offends me when people toss the word “xenophobia” about without understanding what the word means. The most common definition of xenophobia is “hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or fear of their politics, religion or culture”. Hatred or fear. It's neither hatred nor fear to limit foreigners' practises when they conflict with our definitions of freedom and justice. There are limits to multiculturalism that have nothing to do with hatred or fear. It’s quite the opposite in fact. Multiculturalism doesn’t equate to a free-for-all of behaviours which fly in direct conflict with both our Constitution and the principles of fundamental justice in a free society.

The Chinese, for example, are a well-established immigrant group in Canada which has largely remained segregated from white society by choice. Is anyone yelling for limits on Chinese immigration? Why not? Because the Chinese have maintained their cultures within the framework of a Just, Multicultural Canada. They have not attempted to subvert our legal principles nor violate our social tolerances. The same is true, by and large, of Indian Hindus who’ve come to Canada and, for the most part, participated in Canadian society while maintaining those aspects of their cultural and social values that don’t conflict with Canada’s.

That is very different from the approach that Muslims have taken in Europe. It would be foolish to ignore the problems created by Muslim immigration on British society. It’s not at all xenophobic to want to avoid repeating those mistakes in Canada. In Canada we have a proud tradition in leading the world on social issues. The protection of women’s rights, minority rights and the promotion of justice are values that Canada is known for globally. Unfortunately, many of the doctrines of Islam fly in the face of Canadian tradition. Muslims in foreign countries should know this when they’re considering Canada as a destination. Being a just and multicultural society should never mean that we should accept and protect ALL cultural practises in the name of multiculturalism. That was never our model. And twits that want shout hateful names like “xenophobe” at those us that recognize multiculturalism has limits need get their heads out of their asses. It’s a slippery slope to the wild, wild west when anything goes.

[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

sandorski sandorski:

The First Generation of Immigrants rarely integrate. Even when they try they fail to become fully integrated. It takes 2-3 Generations before one new Ethnic group is virtually indistinguishable from the established Society.

If you're going to judge the whole process on the first Generation of new Immigrants, you're going to fail.

Yea, well 2nd and 3rd gen Canadians who are Muslim are still only marrying Muslims.

You fail on this.

But how many 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are there really?

Immigration from those countries was highly restricted until the 70s (so there might be some 2nd gen, but very few 3rd gen). And Muslims do not represent the majority of immigrants we take in (now or in the past). In the past, it was Europeans and now it is Asians - very few of either are Muslim.

If you want proof of immigrants assimilitaing, you only need to look at the Chinese and Japanese communities in Canada - most if not all of those 2nd/3rd gen have integrated.

I agree that assimilating Muslims will be harder and take more effort than other cultures - mainly because their resistance is based on religion and not culture. But I honestly believe it will happen evenutally.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Well now that the obvious is out of the bag, what do you do about the undesirable(those who refuse to fit in) non Briton citizens of the UK?

Deport them.

[EyeBrock]

sandorski sandorski:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yep, look at how many people have emigrated to Canada from these countries.

There are a million Muslims in Canada according to the 2008 Census.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/01/31 ... ars-study/

According to the 2001 census, 300,000 Sikhs were in Canada 10 years ago. I think there maybe a few more Sikhs now.

I feel that millions is an appropriate estimation. As in more than one million.

Did you not know this stuff Sand? But you diss those who dare speak out and question our immigration policies?

Come on mate, do your research. Come back with an educated opinion. Don't just call us xenophobes or do the 'fail' thing. That's very high school and doesn't advance the debate.

Grossly incorrect. A handful have made certain requests. Do the Math.

Really? Sikhs in BC don't have to wear helmets, there's a few hundred thousand.

Do you really think that if these Muslim parents are successful in getting exceptions made for their kids, the other million Muslims in Canada won't take any notice?

You should stop trying to make excuses and confront the issues.

When Prime Ministers are talking about this stuff you know the groundswell from the proles is starting to make itself felt in the offices of power.

Only by having honest debate on the difficulties that immigration causes in Canada can we start to make meaningful changes.

On this thread you seem to be alone.

I’d say that Canadians are starting to sit up and question; “How far should accommodation of immigrant religious minorities’ demands that go against our present laws and cultural standards go?”

No man is an island. Not even the Outer Sandorski Islands.

[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

sandorski sandorski:

Xenophobia is what is a danger to Democracy. Sorry, but you Fail.

Your fortune-cookie simplicities are the failure here. It offends me when people toss the word “xenophobia” about without understanding what the word means. The most common definition of xenophobia is “hatred or fear of foreigners or strangers or fear of their politics, religion or culture”. Hatred or fear. It's neither hatred nor fear to limit foreigners' practises when they conflict with our definitions of freedom and justice. There are limits to multiculturalism that have nothing to do with hatred or fear. It’s quite the opposite in fact. Multiculturalism doesn’t equate to a free-for-all of behaviours which fly in direct conflict with both our Constitution and the principles of fundamental justice in a free society.

The Chinese, for example, are a well-established immigrant group in Canada which has largely remained segregated from white society by choice. Is anyone yelling for limits on Chinese immigration? Why not? Because the Chinese have maintained their cultures within the framework of a Just, Multicultural Canada. They have not attempted to subvert our legal principles nor violate our social tolerances. The same is true, by and large, of Indian Hindus who’ve come to Canada and, for the most part, participated in Canadian society while maintaining those aspects of their cultural and social values that don’t conflict with Canada’s.

That is very different from the approach that Muslims have taken in Europe. It would be foolish to ignore the problems created by Muslim immigration on British society. It’s not at all xenophobic to want to avoid repeating those mistakes in Canada. In Canada we have a proud tradition in leading the world on social issues. The protection of women’s rights, minority rights and the promotion of justice are values that Canada is known for globally. Unfortunately, many of the doctrines of Islam fly in the face of Canadian tradition. Muslims in foreign countries should know this when they’re considering Canada as a destination. Being a just and multicultural society should never mean that we should accept and protect ALL cultural practises in the name of multiculturalism. That was never our model. And twits that want shout hateful names like “xenophobe” at those us that recognize multiculturalism has limits need get their heads out of their asses. It’s a slippery slope to the wild, wild west when anything goes.

I'm in total agreement Lemmy. Good post and I tried to rep ya!