CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 4183
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:13 pm
 


sometimes I like to reflect back to everything that has been said on this issue, every thread that I've shared with others, every discussion I've ever had with anyone about the topic of gun control and the gun registry.

Tonight, is another night where I've done just that.

And, what comes to mind is how flipping pissed off I ought to get anytime someone suggests that I'm part of an unruly group of canadian citizens that by the mere fact that we own firearms it somehow makes it acceptable for me to be associated to murderers.

And, then I consider that my beloved grandfather just wouldn't put up with this crap. No matter how fancy the talking, and no matter how educated a person thinks they are on this matter, he would have said " YOU ARE WRONG! The second you associate me with criminals like murders, you are not only wrong, but you are damn ignorant'

Now, I could see alot of pompous pricks that would try to retreat to safe intelectual ground and make claims like "can you garantee that you wont ever become a criminal?"

And, my grandfather who fought in the war and has some strong views on freedom would point out that the only way you can garantee that a law abiding citizen doesn't become a criminal would be taking away their freedom of thought. And, boy oh boy watch out if you proceeded to suggest that freedom of thought ought to be illiminated.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 53966
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:28 am
 


ASLplease ASLplease:
sometimes I like to reflect back to everything that has been said on this issue, every thread that I've shared with others, every discussion I've ever had with anyone about the topic of gun control and the gun registry.

Tonight, is another night where I've done just that.

And, what comes to mind is how flipping pissed off I ought to get anytime someone suggests that I'm part of an unruly group of canadian citizens that by the mere fact that we own firearms it somehow makes it acceptable for me to be associated to murderers.

And, then I consider that my beloved grandfather just wouldn't put up with this crap. No matter how fancy the talking, and no matter how educated a person thinks they are on this matter, he would have said " YOU ARE WRONG! The second you associate me with criminals like murders, you are not only wrong, but you are damn ignorant'

Now, I could see alot of pompous pricks that would try to retreat to safe intelectual ground and make claims like "can you garantee that you wont ever become a criminal?"

And, my grandfather who fought in the war and has some strong views on freedom would point out that the only way you can garantee that a law abiding citizen doesn't become a criminal would be taking away their freedom of thought. And, boy oh boy watch out if you proceeded to suggest that freedom of thought ought to be illiminated.


R=UP

Well said.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 65472
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:06 am
 


Freedom of thought no longer exists. In Canada you've got the so-called 'human rights' commissions whose job is to control thought-crimes and in the USA we've just got a collective group-think of oppressive political correctness that creates an environment of fear in public discourse.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 4183
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:23 pm
 


yup. I could get kidnapped and reprogrammed if I ever speak out against the CBC or call GWB a nice guy.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23091
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:42 pm
 


ASLplease ASLplease:
yup. I could get kidnapped and reprogrammed if I ever speak out against the CBC or call GWB a nice guy.


:roll:


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 53966
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:38 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
ASLplease ASLplease:
yup. I could get kidnapped and reprogrammed if I ever speak out against the CBC or call GWB a nice guy.


:roll:


Oh, please Boots! 3 pages back you were calling millions of farmers who don't register their cars 'criminals'. Knee jerk reactions are par for the course on internet debate sites.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23091
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:59 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
bootlegga bootlegga:
ASLplease ASLplease:
yup. I could get kidnapped and reprogrammed if I ever speak out against the CBC or call GWB a nice guy.


:roll:


Oh, please Boots! 3 pages back you were calling millions of farmers who don't register their cars 'criminals'. Knee jerk reactions are par for the course on internet debate sites.


Nice try at putting words in my mouth.

I never called anyone criminals, I simply said it is illegal to use unregistered vehicles, to which you added the caveat about public roads. Maybe you consider them both criminals, but I don't, any more than I consider someone jaywalking or speeding a criminal.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 4914
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:17 pm
 


Jack Layton has a plan for the gun registry. It’s a great plan, says he. A compromise for all Canadians that all can live with. He’s going to drop the criminal prohibition for first-time non-compliers, drop registration fees and respect native treaties and the privacy rights of all gun owners. He’s really proud of the plan. And in an alternate universe where it might have actually been possible to enact it, maybe it even would have worked.

Sadly for Mr. Layton, in this universe, his plan is a fiction, a farce. His proposal to save the gun registry requires him to introduce a compromise bill, which will then need to be debated, read three times, approved by the Senate and then given Royal Assent … all in the two days before the registry’s fate will be decided when the Conservative-backed “private member’s bill” comes up for third reading on Sept. 22. Of course, Mr. Layton — an intelligent, seasoned politician — knows his plan doesn’t have a snowball’s chance. But that’s OK. Because he doesn’t intend for it to succeed. It’s just a political ploy.

Ploys are nothing new in politics, but this is a somewhat novel one. It’s aimed not at the government or even the other opposition parties, but at a third of his own caucus — the 12 NDP MP’s who voted against keeping the registry last time and who are expected to do the same this month. Layton knows that these 12 NDP members, representing rural ridings where the registry is loathed with fiery passion, cannot support the registry as-is and hope to be re-elected. So, by dreaming up this compromise, he’s trying to give them something — anything — that they can take back to their constituents and say, “Yes, I voted for keeping the registry today, but only so that I can reform it later in a way that will address your concerns! Please re-elect me.”

It’s a neat idea, but it won’t work. Layton, like Michael Ignatieff, fundamentally misunderstands why the registry is so hated by millions of Canadians. It’s not about a fee here or there, or having to fill out a few forms. It’s because the registry, from its very inception, has symbolized the distrust of the so-called “liberal elites” for anyone so retrograde as to own a gun.

The arguments for and against the registry have been rehashed ad infinitum and will be so again in the run up to the vote, so we’ll skip that here. All that needs saying is that by its very rationale — making the public and police safer by collecting information on individuals and their property — the registry could only ever serve to alienate those that it targets. Any law-abiding citizen, if told they must fill out paperwork and submit private information to the government for the safety of society cannot help but feel that society has passed judgment upon them and deemed them somehow dangerous.

Consider, as well, the historical background to the creation of the registry. It was, and remains, a political monument to the victims of the Montreal massacre, a tangible demonstration that the Liberal party is against mass shootings. Never mind the fact that the registry likely wouldn’t have prevented Marc Lepine’s rampage, or that the rifle he used, even under the registry, is subject to the lowest level of scrutiny and restriction. The Liberals, under Jean Chretien, saw a chance to capitalize on the public’s shock and outrage surrounding the brutal murder of those 14 women and created the registry to show voters how seriously they took the issue of gun violence. Once again, a political ploy.

But this political ploy was aimed at millions of Canadians, those who own firearms, and were as equally horrified by Lepine’s actions as any. And suddenly, government bureaucrats — backed by the power of criminal sanction — were nosing around their business, insisting that they register their property so as to prevent such an occurrence from ever happening again. How could they not conclude that they were being grouped with Lepine, lumped together in an association of murderous psychopaths-in-waiting because they happen to own a rifle. It’s collective punishment aimed at gun owners, and they are — understandably — furious.

Lawful gun owners don’t want the registry scrapped to save themselves a few minutes of paperwork now and then. They want this symbol of unfairness, of the suspicion their government regards them with, destroyed, so that they don’t have to feel like pariahs anymore. Everything that has happened since — the massive cost overruns, the bureaucratic nightmares, the lost documentation and constant data-entry errors, not to mention the Liberal flip-flop on their promise to never use the registry to try and ban guns (Paul Martin’s 2005 proposed handgun ban) — has merely added to the sense of outrage felt by millions of law-abiding Canadians.

Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff are politicians, and have to balance many competing interests within their own parties while still trying to appeal to the broadest possible segment of the electorate. But on the gun registry, their political instincts are simply wrong. In the eyes of the gun-owning Canadians these compromise measures are aimed at, the registry has and always will be an insult aimed at their very moral character and mental balance, one made all the worse by coming to symbolize government waste and crass politics. Tweaking it here or there in an attempt to make it palatable to these voters is a lost cause.

It’s too late to redeem the registry. Either it gets scrapped or the political parties that support it must pay the consequences. Michael Ignatieff has come to accept this after his own earlier hopes to make the registry work for rural Canadians, which is why he’s simply whipping his caucus to vote for its preservation. He’ll pay the consequences in the rural ridings and accept as a trade-off the opportunity have a little culture war and tell urban Canadians that Harper is soft on guns. Jack Layton should be honest with himself and his caucus and do the same. In or out, sir. The registry is far too hated with way too much justification to permit anything else.

National Post

mgurney@nationalpost.com


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Edmonton Oilers
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8533
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:15 pm
 


hurley_108 hurley_108:
I'm almost to the point where I don't care which way the vote goes, just as long as both sides STFU and GBTW after its taken. I'm sick of hearing about it, I'm sick of it taking attention away from other areas, just vote and be done with it.


I guess I'm going to be disappointed.


Offline
Forum Elite
Forum Elite
Profile
Posts: 1348
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:23 pm
 


Well, did you expect such a contentious issue would just evaporate?

If it's any consolation, I've said all I care to say on the matter.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR

GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 23565
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:53 pm
 


Image

Machine gun kitty will finish this discussion...... now.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 4914
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:05 am
 


is that kitty registered? :)


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Edmonton Oilers
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8533
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:08 am
 


uwish uwish:
is that kitty registered? :)


Hey, as long as you're reviving two-week old threads, how about taking another stab at this one?


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 4914
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:40 am
 


sorry my late response upsets you Hurley.


Offline
CKA Elite
CKA Elite
Profile
Posts: 4183
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:16 pm
 


Both the oligarch and Tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms. — Aristotle


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 92 posts ]  Previous  1 ... 3  4  5  6  7  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.