[andyt]

Robair Robair:

What the hell is YOUR problem?

Well I have many. One is you telling me to look up permanent resident - I mean was that meant to be a joke or what?

On a more serious topic - we talk a lot about immigrants to Canada integrating. Usually in the context of Muslims, tho I'm pretty hot about the topic in regard to Asians as well - comes from living in Vancouver. But why pick on them only? I don't like it when they still primarily consider themselves affiliated with whatever country they came from, keep their loyalties there, so why should it be any different for Europeans? When I dis the Dutch army for not doing much in Astan (however seriously that was meant) and Brenda says "thanks for your support" well we're in Canada but she's identifying as Dutch, as if I'm talking to her.

I've always expected the people who immigrate here to start identifying as primarily Canadian. (Have never liked even people who insist on being hyphenated Canadians.) If not, well you're just here for what you can get out of the country, aren't you? No wonder we put the Japanese in internment camps, if they had the same attitude.

[EyeBrock]

Brenda,

Two things.

The thing about the English (lets include the Jock gits, the Trogs and the Paddies on this too) being rude when drunk isn't entirely true. The English are rude sober and just downright arrogant/annoying when alcohol is added.

On the cheese thing. Canada, especially Ontario and Quebec and to a lesser extent the Maritime Provinces, has a very mature and well respected cheese industry that goes back to United Empire Loyalist times. Canadian cheddar is some of the best in the world and was actually the first ever cheddar to be imported to the birthplace of cheddar.

Any study of pioneer Canada, especially Upper and Lower Canada mentions the cheese 'culture' that pervaded early Canada. That heritage and technical ability is seen today in the really good cheeses that come out of the various parts of Canada. It's something we should be proud of and I'm a huge fan of Canadian cheeses. I don't know what the fuck happened in the US though, I've yet to find a good cheese there!

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't know what the fuck happened in the US though, I've yet to find a good cheese there!

They had (have?) import restrictions, so Kraft etc were able to take over. Make stuff like "American" cheese. (You're a true patriot if you eat that stuff.)

Canada is producing all kinds of artisanal cheeses that can stack up against the world.


Jeez, where this discussion is going, no wonder the Americans call us cheese heads.

[Robair]

andyt andyt:

Robair Robair:

What the hell is YOUR problem?

Well I have many. One is you telling me to look up permanent resident - I mean was that meant to be a joke or what?

No. Look it up.

andyt andyt:

On a more serious topic - we talk a lot about immigrants to Canada integrating. Usually in the context of Muslims, tho I'm pretty hot about the topic in regard to Asians as well - comes from living in Vancouver. But why pick on them only? I don't like it when they still primarily consider themselves affiliated with whatever country they came from, keep their loyalties there, so why should it be any different for Europeans? When I dis the Dutch army for not doing much in Astan (however seriously that was meant) and Brenda says "thanks for your support" well we're in Canada but she's identifying as Dutch, as if I'm talking to her.

Could that be becasue she IS Dutch? LOOK UP PR STATUS F.F.S.

andyt andyt:

I've always expected the people who immigrate here to start identifying as primarily Canadian.

Even permanent residents who are not at all Canadian??

andyt andyt:

If not, well you're just here for what you can get out of the country, aren't you?

Maybe they're here for what they contribute. Maybe that's why we let them in.

andyt andyt:

No wonder we put the Japanese in internment camps, if they had the same attitude.

Wow. First class. How about you do Canadians everywhere a favour and stop identifying yourself as one.

[andyt]

Robair Robair:

No. Look it up.

Get over yourself already.

$1:

Could that be becasue she IS Dutch? LOOK UP PR STATUS F.F.S.

See above. I know that she's legally Dutch. But she emigrated to Canada I expect her to start identifying with her new homeland and let go of the old one.

$1:

Even permanent residents who are not at all Canadian??

Well yeah - they should be working on becoming Canadian.

$1:

andyt andyt:

No wonder we put the Japanese in internment camps, if they had the same attitude.

Wow. First class. How about you do Canadians everywhere a favour and stop identifying yourself as one.

Have another major war, where we fear being invaded, and see how fast attitudes change.

[Brenda]

You know Andy, when you move to another country, and become a citizen there, you keep your Canadian nationality too. You would become a dual citizen. I won't. I have to give up my Dutch.

[Brenda]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Brenda,

Two things.

The thing about the English (lets include the Jock gits, the Trogs and the Paddies on this too) being rude when drunk isn't entirely true. The English are rude sober and just downright arrogant/annoying when alcohol is added.

On the cheese thing. Canada, especially Ontario and Quebec and to a lesser extent the Maritime Provinces, has a very mature and well respected cheese industry that goes back to United Empire Loyalist times. Canadian cheddar is some of the best in the world and was actually the first ever cheddar to be imported to the birthplace of cheddar.

Any study of pioneer Canada, especially Upper and Lower Canada mentions the cheese 'culture' that pervaded early Canada. That heritage and technical ability is seen today in the really good cheeses that come out of the various parts of Canada. It's something we should be proud of and I'm a huge fan of Canadian cheeses. I don't know what the fuck happened in the US though, I've yet to find a good cheese there!

Thanks for the chuckle

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

You know Andy, when you move to another country, and become a citizen there, you keep your Canadian nationality too. You would become a dual citizen. I won't. I have to give up my Dutch.

I believe some countries make you renounce your former citizenship before allowing you to become their citizen, - I don't know what Canada's position on that would be.

I can see how it would be a hard choice - having to give up the citizenship of the country you were born in. But I keep coming back to this topic, because as I say, I raved a lot about Asians seeming to identify more with their homeland than with Canada. I don't think that's a good thing for Canada. I'm way less concerned with someone like you, who comes from a European country - our culture is way more similar. But, fair's fair. I've never been happy about the Europeans who live here all their lives, but never take out citizenship. I think when you emigrate, you should adopt the country you're moving to as your new homeland.

Bart seemed to be serious about the scenario about a newly militarized Europe coming over here to take our resources. Presumably the Dutch would be in on that fiendish plot, so you'd have to figure out where your loyalty stands - before we put all European pr's in camps.

Oh, note the word permanent. If someone is here permanently, shouldn't they show they're serious and take out citizenship?

[Brenda]

It has nothing to do with Canada. Canada allows dual citizenship. The Netherlands doesn't. I don't think being a citizen or a resident makes any difference in the way you live or in the way you think about your home country or your new country. I think it is all in the attitude. Personally, I think having lived in more than one country enriches people.

I don't have to figure out where my loyalty stands. I will be neutral. It is the way I am raised, and in a hypothetical case like that, the only good way.

On a last note, NO ONE is ANYWHERE permanently.

[EyeBrock]

Brenda Brenda:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Brenda,

Two things.

The thing about the English (lets include the Jock gits, the Trogs and the Paddies on this too) being rude when drunk isn't entirely true. The English are rude sober and just downright arrogant/annoying when alcohol is added.

On the cheese thing. Canada, especially Ontario and Quebec and to a lesser extent the Maritime Provinces, has a very mature and well respected cheese industry that goes back to United Empire Loyalist times. Canadian cheddar is some of the best in the world and was actually the first ever cheddar to be imported to the birthplace of cheddar.

Any study of pioneer Canada, especially Upper and Lower Canada mentions the cheese 'culture' that pervaded early Canada. That heritage and technical ability is seen today in the really good cheeses that come out of the various parts of Canada. It's something we should be proud of and I'm a huge fan of Canadian cheeses. I don't know what the fuck happened in the US though, I've yet to find a good cheese there!

Thanks for the chuckle

Hey, that's the reality! Both the cheese thing and annoyingly arrogant Brits.

I was born British but by the grace of God I am now a Canadian!

Although I can default to arrogant Limey modewith enough Stella Artois in me. Anything over 6 cans isn't conducive to diplomacy and I usually stick to 5. I think Andy may be at 7 cans.....

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think Andy may be at 7 cans.....

No, just all that cheese is giving me gas. I'm mostly reacting to myself. As I say, I expect Asians to identify with Canada when they immigrate here, yet I'm much more tolerant of Europeans who don't. If you can do it, why can't all immigrants?

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think Andy may be at 7 cans.....

No, just all that cheese is giving me gas. I'm mostly reacting to myself. As I say, I expect Asians to identify with Canada when they immigrate here, yet I'm much more tolerant of Europeans who don't. If you can do it, why can't all immigrants?

Because everyone is different. Every immigrant has his story.

There are a couple of things I want to see changed about the whole immigration system, but to make it mandatory to become a Canadian citizen after exactly 3 years, and having to give up your nationality is not one of them.
Speaking the language and knowing that there is no such thing as Sharia law in this country is one. Not living in "ghetto's" is another one. Mingle. Just fit in. But stay true to yourself.

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

There are a couple of things I want to see changed about the whole immigration system, but to make it mandatory to become a Canadian citizen after exactly 3 years, and having to give up your nationality is not one of them.

No, and I advocate it taking 10 years of keeping your nose clean to be able to become a citizen. Guess I'm contradicting myself. But I wasn't talking about making anything mandatory, only the expectations we put on people. So when I criticize something about India, I don't expect an Indian immigrant to take it as a personal affront. Same applies to all the klompen wearers I guess.

Hey, you should have been here when Vander Zalm was premier - you would have loved it.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

There are a couple of things I want to see changed about the whole immigration system, but to make it mandatory to become a Canadian citizen after exactly 3 years, and having to give up your nationality is not one of them.

No, and I advocate it taking 10 years of keeping your nose clean to be able to become a citizen. Guess I'm contradicting myself. But I wasn't talking about making anything mandatory, only the expectations we put on people. So when I criticize something about India, I don't expect an Indian immigrant to take it as a personal affront. Same applies to all the klompen wearers I guess.

Hey, you should have been here when Vander Zalm was premier - you would have loved it.

I can agree with that. Because that is the other side of the medal. You cannot deport Canadian citizens with 1 nationality. And I think you should deport criminal PR's.
You dont pull shit like that in your former country, don't pull it here either.

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think Andy may be at 7 cans.....

No, just all that cheese is giving me gas. I'm mostly reacting to myself. As I say, I expect Asians to identify with Canada when they immigrate here, yet I'm much more tolerant of Europeans who don't. If you can do it, why can't all immigrants?

Brenda and I have heated debates on this in the past. Basically my view is that I'm ok with PR/Landed Immigrants keeping their citizenship but that choice precludes them from really being part of our society.
Their credibility commenting on issues relating to our culture etc is proportionally tainted by the fact that they take advantage of our society and freedoms but won't commit.

As in I take their views with a big fuck-off pinch of salt.

That includes anybody, Brit's, Cloggies, Box-Heads or those from the medieval third world. Anybody who wants to be Canadian, not just a plastic hyphenated ‘Canadian’ but really wants to be a part of our country should be welcomed with open arms.

I haven't renewed my UK passport and I won't. My nice blue Canadian one is all I need.
I'll be like the millions of Brits and Irish who have been coming here for hundreds of years. I'll fight for and serve Canada, even if I have a funny accent, I'm a Canadian. I left the UK for many good reasons and this is my home and my country.

How far? All the WAY!