[FieryVulpine]

kenmore kenmore:

Back up that statement.. it shows your lack of knowledge about him and his philosopy. do some reading instead of listening to daddy.

Kenny, if one half of the country hated PET's guts and the other half loved him, I'd hate to know what your definition of divisive is.

As for my favorite PM. It's the Magical Platypus, of course!

[Arctic_Menace]

Alexandre Alexandre:

-snip-

Ah, one of you finally came out fo the woodwork!

Now, let's get this thread back on topic. What do you think about what Lucien Bouchard said?

[PimpBrewski123]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

let's get this thread back on topic.

Not sure how the thread went from Bouchard to Trudeau to WWII, anyways.

[andyt]

$1:

Look, i would certainly like an independant Quebec for french-canadians, instead of staying a national minority in a country where the english-speaking majority dont seems to like us that much (to say the least).

Speaking for myself, I would love to love you. You have an interesting culture and skew Canada more left, preventing nutbars like Stephen Harper from taking over. I think Canada would be culturally much poorer without you guys, tho maybe better off financially.

But geez, you guys like your whine. It's never enough for you, you always feel you're getting the short end of the stick. Hasn't been true in decades. You guys should make common 'cause with the natives, they're into the same thing. But then I guess each of you would have to give up the racist elements of your complaints.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Alexandre Alexandre:

Look, i would certainly like an independant Quebec for french-canadians, instead of staying a national minority in a country where the english-speaking majority dont seems to like us that much (to say the least). But still, Canada is a democratic and decent country. So being being a minority here is paradise compared to others national minorities such as the Kurds and the Tibetans.

The majority of English speaking ppl in Canada who don't like Quebec, don't like the constant stream of whining that comes from that province, or at least from the minority in that province. A minority I might add that does a great job of parroting jingoisms but do a LOUSY job of actually thinking for themselves, as per how the hell Quebec would make it as a separate, sovereign nation.
We also don't like you very much cuz Quebec gets the lion's share of the fed transfer payments(compared to what they contribute) and yet they still whine about how hard done by they are.
I mean c'mon, if Quebec really wants Canada to embrace its "culture", then can the whiney crap, and encourage Canadians to come to Quebec and enjoy the beauty and the atmosphere. But quite frankly, not too many ppl wanna vacation in a place where they could be treated like the shit that's stuck to shit on the bottom of a shoe. Perception is everything and unfortunately, the perception of the separatists in Quebec, and the animosity many have towards English Canada only helps to make the division even greater.

[MacDonaill]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

That's my point. He wasn't "kept away", it was his decision not to go. It's not like he was home doing important war work, no, he was getting an education for himself, content to let everyone else do his fighting for him. And I appreciate your thanks for my father's sacrifice. Nothing anyone can say will change my opinion of Trudeau, my father was the greater man by far, as was my grandfather before him. True Canadian patriots.

So if I understand you here, a man's value as being 'a good man' or 'a bad man' is directly linked to his level of (Canadian) patriotism?

I really don't think that getting yourself shipped off to be slaughtered by the Krauts has anything to do with how good or how patriotic you are. Nor do I think that patriotism and goodness go hand in hand. Jesus, Mussolini was patriotic too... didn't make him very good.

Trudeau's opposition to Canada's entry into WW2 was very much patriotic because A. he didn't believe going to fight the Mother Country's wars for her should have anything to do with being a proud Canadian and B. he was a very ardent French-Canadian nationalist at a time decades before the attempted rapprochement of Canada's two nations, and didn't see any reason why French-Canadians should be fighting for King George VI.

I can already see you being attempted to deduce my agreement with those feelings of his simply because I've pointed them out, but allow me to spare you the trouble and say that my description and analysis of his opinions on those issues do not necessarily reflect my own.

[GreenTiger]

Yeah, sure, and Sarah Palin will be the greatest POTUS ever. [/quote]

Please don't even think that, that is the stuff nightmares are
Made of.[/quote]

All the more reason why you and sensible Americans should move up here instead of trying to change your country. Leave the change to Obama. [/quote]

I can assure you that the thought has crossed my mind and is
tempting as you can judge from my avatar.

[MacDonaill]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

I can assure you that the thought has crossed my mind and is
tempting as you can judge from my avatar.

Love that avatar. I have one hanging in my room.

[PimpBrewski123]

Alexandre Alexandre:

I actually agree 100% with Bouchard. And he said what what i think since a long time.

I'm part of the nationalist faction who accepted the two referendum defeats. So i dont see the point of pushing this agenda until a CLEAR majority start demanding it. So, i would certainly like my leaders to adress vital issues such as the shape of our public finances.

Im happy Bouchard said that, and i would vote for him if he would run in the elections again.

Look, i would certainly like an independant Quebec for french-canadians, instead of staying a national minority in a country where the english-speaking majority dont seems to like us that much (to say the least). But still, Canada is a democratic and decent country. So being being a minority here is paradise compared to others national minorities such as the Kurds and the Tibetans.

So the PQ and the Bloc should smell the coffee and wake up to the fact that we lost and that there is no point of fighting for independance until a very significant majority of quebecois ask for it. Instead, they should do exactly what Bouchard ask. Until that i will continue to vote for the ADQ and the conservative.

Not sure about the logic. Most ''nationalist'' Quebecers in favour of sovereignty vote for the Bloc, at least on the Federal level. And the majority vote PQ provincially. Surely blind partisan votes for the most part.

Unless for the right wing values. CPC and ADQ are representing those.

[gonavy47]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

That's my point. He wasn't "kept away", it was his decision not to go. It's not like he was home doing important war work, no, he was getting an education for himself, content to let everyone else do his fighting for him. And I appreciate your thanks for my father's sacrifice. Nothing anyone can say will change my opinion of Trudeau, my father was the greater man by far, as was my grandfather before him. True Canadian patriots.

So if I understand you here, a man's value as being 'a good man' or 'a bad man' is directly linked to his level of (Canadian) patriotism?

I really don't think that getting yourself shipped off to be slaughtered by the Krauts has anything to do with how good or how patriotic you are. Nor do I think that patriotism and goodness go hand in hand. Jesus, Mussolini was patriotic too... didn't make him very good.

Trudeau's opposition to Canada's entry into WW2 was very much patriotic because A. he didn't believe going to fight the Mother Country's wars for her should have anything to do with being a proud Canadian and B. he was a very ardent French-Canadian nationalist at a time decades before the attempted rapprochement of Canada's two nations, and didn't see any reason why French-Canadians should be fighting for King George VI.

I can already see you being attempted to deduce my agreement with those feelings of his simply because I've pointed them out, but allow me to spare you the trouble and say that my description and analysis of his opinions on those issues do not necessarily reflect my own.

If Canadians like my father didn't go to war against Hitler, there would be no French-English derision in this country, we'd all be speaking German!

[kenmore]

Well said gonav47,well said. And before the anti-Québec anti- french crowd jump on the bandwagon, not all Québecois refused to go to war. My father and grandfather were British living in Québec and both went to war of course. My french grandfather was too ill to go but supported Canada and it decision to go. Some of my uncles refused and some joined up willingly. But you are absolutely right our freedoms would have been different. And I am afraid we will have to fight again, this time a different foe.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

MacDonaill MacDonaill:

Trudeau's opposition to Canada's entry into WW2 was very much patriotic because A. he didn't believe going to fight the Mother Country's wars for her should have anything to do with being a proud Canadian and B. he was a very ardent French-Canadian nationalist at a time decades before the attempted rapprochement of Canada's two nations, and didn't see any reason why French-Canadians should be fighting for King George VI.

Really?? Cuz last time I checked, it wasn't Britain that was over-run by the Nazis. If I recall my history correctly, and I'm pretty sure I do about this, France was the one under the Nazi jackboot(among others), not Britain. I can even provide volumes of empirical data on that if you'd like.
Oh and ummm when U-boats started sinking ships in the St. Lawrence, you bet yer ASS it became CANADA's war too. And in all places, Quebec territory. The irony is almost sickening.

[ShepherdsDog]

There was something extremely vichy about Trudeau's attitude towards the Germans and WWII.

[PimpBrewski123]

There are Federalists, soft nationalists and hardcore separatists in the province of Quebec. The good majority of Quebecers are indifferent about the sovereignty issue. There have been several polls showing that, plus it is so last week.

Sometimes it is astonishing & shameful to see the separatist ignorance. Several QC artists, like Paul Piché and Biz de Loco Locass, that sold about 2 or 3 CD's, yet getting that much media attention, pretty much a joke as always. But then again, pretty much expected considering our lovely media. Another great example was the reconstitution of the Bataille des Plaines, instead they opted for the ''Moulin à Parole'', a separatist love fest.

Anyways, probably Quebecers in favour of sovereignty do so out of pride or perhaps provincial/national patriotism. Ohhhhh, the oppression des méchants Anglos. Ciboire, get over it for that was long ago, meaning for those hardcore separatists. And as for rest, ev1 else, perhaps we should all be cooperating in the unification of this country instead of constantly trying to divide it.

[Bodah]

Like Pimp said majority of Quebecers want nothing to do with separation, majority of them are now comfortable within Canada and know a good thing when they have it. It really is the media that finds the 1 nut out of a hundred people in a crowd and gives them the spotlight. So shame on them for fueling diviseness.

If Bouchard says its dead, it is.