[Akhenaten]

So there are zero simularities then? A completely different species? C'mon people.

I think I understand what you are trying to say Brenda. There is no such thing as 'deserves' in a conflict zone. No one 'deserves' to die or to live. There is not much rhyme or reason to who lives or who dies. If I'm getting shot at it's for the same reason they're getting shot at: because I have a rifle and I'm a "believer".

I for one Brenda do not think you're saying we are the same people, but that there is an equality or direct comparrison between combatants in combat, this is true. It's just that is so basic it is overshadowed by truly colossial differences in the people in question and the methods employed during combat. Those differences are huge no matter how many people want to pretend "killing is killing". That's a mistake.

[PENATRATOR]

Brenda Brenda:

Lots of the Nazi's HAD to do the same...

....and I think I made that clear they were NOT the same as us either. But DON'T get me started on WWII!!

[Brenda]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

So there are zero simularities then? A completely different species? C'mon people.

I think I understand what you are trying to say Brenda. There is no such thing as 'deserves' in a conflict zone. No one 'deserves' to die or to live. There is not much rhyme or reason to who lives or who dies. If I'm getting shot at it's for the same reason they're getting shot at: because I have a rifle and I'm a "believer".

I for one Brenda do not think you're saying we are the same people, but that there is an equality or direct comparrison between combatants in combat, this is true. It's just that is so basic it is overshadowed by truly colossial differences in the people in question and the methods employed during combat. Those differences are huge no matter how many people want to pretend "killing is killing". That's a mistake.

Thank you...

[Brenda]

PENATRATOR PENATRATOR:

Brenda Brenda:

Lots of the Nazi's HAD to do the same...

....and I think I made that clear they were NOT the same as us either. But DON'T get me started on WWII!!

[Zipperfish]

TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:

We are different from the barbarians of the world....I dont have someone forcing a Burka on me or a Female circumcision on me....We need to educate and free the world from these barbaric pieces of shit. This is not cultural...its barbaric

Male circumcision. Bras instead of burquas. Same shit, different pile. I say before we go overseas on our zealous mission to "civilize" people we should take a look in the mirror.

We are there to knock off the Taliban who aided and abetted Al Qeada who crashed plaens into the buildings of our allies. The minute this turned into a mission to civilize people using bullets, we lost.

[stratos]

Please someone point out to me where it's ok to beat women, refuse them education, to send childern the age of 10 and younger with bombs straped to them into a crowd. Show me where fighters/soldiers purposely target kids going to school. (not as an isolated incident but as common practice in the way you wage your war campain) Then explain to me how those persons are the same as me. They maybe human but they are not the same as me.

Now for the Capt. and his situation my gut response was yeah he did right. It was walk away or kill the guy then walk away. So it's up to the courts to decide .... I know what I would have done if I was in the Capt. position.

Some questions on the case I would like to have answered would be did someone in the Capt. unit die in the fire fight. Was the wounded/dieing taliban guy searched for bombs? Was the mission they were on of a sensitive nature where if info of their position was obtained would that have put them in further jepordy.

Now what we all must ask ourselfs is if it would have been ok to walk away from the taliban bleeding to death with no hope of medical treatment saving him, why then is it wrong to end the man's suffering by ending his life?

[Zipperfish]

stratos stratos:

Please someone point out to me where it's ok to beat women, refuse them education, to send childern the age of 10 and younger with bombs straped to them into a crowd. Show me where fighters/soldiers purposely target kids going to school. (not as an isolated incident but as common practice in the way you wage your war campain) Then explain to me how those persons are the same as me. They maybe human but they are not the same as me.

Please show me where it's OK to deliberately exterminate thousands of thousands of unborn babies every year, where mere girls troll the street selling sex and where goevrnment sanctioned places exist where people can use highly-addictive, life-destroying drugs and where thousands of animals every year die slow, cruel deaths in experimental labs to help find better cosmetic products and where the native inhabitants fo a country live in relative poverty and live short lives compared to its immigrants.

Actually, that would be Canada.

Morals are a moveable feast.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

Bras instead of burquas. Same shit, different pile.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Oh boy that's a good one.

I could start by pointing out that one group is forced to wear one while the otehr group has a choice and can chose not to wear a bra without the threat of being beaten to death but let's face it, you obviously, by virtue of this statement alone, aren't remotely interested in sincerely discussing this.

$1:

We are there to knock off the Taliban who aided and abetted Al Qeada who crashed plaens into the buildings of our allies. The minute this turned into a mission to civilize people using bullets, we lost.

It's never been about that and still isn't. It's still about removing the Taliban.

[Brenda]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

$1:

Bras instead of burquas. Same shit, different pile.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Oh boy that's a good one.

I could start by pointing out that one group is forced to wear one while the otehr group has a choice and can chose not to wear a bra without the threat of being beaten to death but let's face it, you obviously, by virtue of this statement alone, aren't remotely interested in sincerely discussing this.

The last time I asked a woman why she wore a hijab, it was her own choice to wear one.

[Akhenaten]

Brenda Brenda:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

$1:

Bras instead of burquas. Same shit, different pile.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Oh boy that's a good one.

I could start by pointing out that one group is forced to wear one while the otehr group has a choice and can chose not to wear a bra without the threat of being beaten to death but let's face it, you obviously, by virtue of this statement alone, aren't remotely interested in sincerely discussing this.

The last time I asked a woman why she wore a hijab, it was her own choice to wear one.

Currently yes. Not with the Taliban. Just like it's their choice to go to school or not -- no one puts a rifle in their back forcing them to.

What does the Taliban do with girls/women who decided to go to school Brenda? What do they do to women who decide not to wear a hijab?

Once you answer that question you will simutaniuously answer which group is forcing their 'culture' on another.

[Brenda]

Which makes you admit this is a cultural difference. Who the hell are we to force our culture on them?
We can never win this, and you know it as well as I do. Lets not waste more soldiers, careers and lifes, please...

[Akhenaten]

Brenda you're just ignoring what I said now.

WE ARE NOT FORCING OUR CULTURE ON THEM. THAT'S WHAT THE TALIBAN DO.

When we open a school, then sit back and let people willingly go of their own choice and accord how is that 'forcing our culture on them'? They ahd schools before the Taliban (and USSR).

When they have a choice to wear a hajib or not how is that us forcing our culture on them? No Brenda, if we ripped the hajibs off them THAT would be forcing our culture on them. You know this but for some reason are unwilling to admit it. They had a choice before the Taliban (and the USSR) so THAT's their culture Brenda not ours. Their culture includes choice.

Do you see the difference?

NATO = Choice

Taliban = No Choice.

It's the latter that is doing the 'forcing' Brenda, there is no way to argue different. Sorry.

$1:

We can never win this, and you know it as well as I do

No I disagree. We can win this.

[Brenda]

$1:

if we ripped the hajibs off them THAT would be forcing our culture on them.

Which is exactly what we are doing when we do not allow hajibs in classrooms, public places and whatever when they come to our country. Which happens in Belgium. Belgium is NATO. Choice? Meh...

If we can win this, why haven't we succeeded in the past 8 years? How long is it going to take? How many troops will be killed?

I love the troops building schools for the people there, I really do, and I wish that was ALL they had to do. Reality is, that that is not all they have to do. If it was, they would not get killed.

Not every Afghani is Taliban.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

Which is exactly what we are doing when we do not allow hajibs in classrooms, public places and whatever when they come to our country

What are you talking about? First off we were talking about Afghanistan and forcing our culture on theirs. We have a culture and while we could 'force it' on people that come to live here we don't. We are not 'ripping off hajibs' in the classroom. If that's the case you better alert the school where my daughter attends because they don't do that there. I have no idea what you're talking about with this statement.

$1:

Which happens in Belgium. Belgium is NATO. Choice? Meh...

Barely. Go talk to Belgium? We're supposed to be reponsible for what belgium does? Pretty weak Brenda. The topic is Afghanistan and unless you're going to conceed my previous point about choice I see no reason to follow you along every possible example where we --within our own countries--- are forcing our culture on Afghans in Afghanistan.

I reinterate:
NATO provides choice and their culture embraces the choice. The Taliban offers no choice. It is the Taliban doing the forcing.

$1:

Not every Afghani is Taliban.

What? I never said they were Brenda. That is entirely my point in fact.

[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

I could start by pointing out that one group is forced to wear one while the otehr group has a choice and can chose not to wear a bra without the threat of being beaten to death but let's face it, you obviously, by virtue of this statement alone, aren't remotely interested in sincerely discussing this.

Actually, if you're female and walked around with no top on, you'd likely be forcibly arrested. If you resisted arrest, the result could well be a beating and possibly death. There's no reason for such a law, except that our society's moral code is that breasts are considered obscene. Clearly in your smug moral superiority, this has eluded you. Of course, women don't walk around without their tops off in Canada because they've been conditioned to cover themselves, the same way Afghan women have been conditioned.

Clearly their case is much worse. I may be guilty of moral relativity but not moral equivalency. The question is, if we were invaded by an advanced country who sought to liberate women from having to cover their breasts, whose side would you be on?

$1:

It's never been about that and still isn't. It's still about removing the Taliban.

It should be about the Taliban. As a nation we have security interests in ensuring that terrorist groups inimical to us are not able to seek refuge or be nurtured in Afghanistan. That was the purpose of the mission. Seems to me it has turned into a c"civilizing the barbarians" exercise.