[Zipperfish]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Zip:
So what? All black people only vote Dem?
You know that's a distraction and just spin.

It's a statistical anomlay. Based on demographics, one in four should be non-white. The odds of a random selection of US citizens being that white is very small, I'd say.

[Zipperfish]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

[
I see Americans there. Not black, not white, Americans!

What's funny is how jumped up you all get when I state the glaringly obvious. And I mean funny. I'm bustin' a gut at that right now.

[xerxes]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I dunno, something about that pic strikes me as parodic more than anything.

You're right. It's a tongue in cheek protest organisation. I forget what they're called a the moment though.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Yeah, the guy in the tacky green sweater and sailor cap was a bit of a tip off

[herbie]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I dunno, something about that pic strikes me as parodic more than anything.

Well DUHHH!
But no shit, that's the only group I've heard of threatened with a tax hike. Is there one I don't know about? An honest question.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

none that I've heard. And even if there is as a result of "socialized" medicine in the US, I'm willing to bet that with what they'd save in insurance premiums, the individual would still come out way ahead of the game. Well except the insurance companies but I say fuck 'em anyway

[N_Fiddledog]

I'm confused.

You guys are talking like it's an either or proposition. Like either there's socialized medicine, or it's status quo under the corporate thumb.

We're reading different information on this. I'm under the impression the republican plan is to work towards something where any citizen can have health insurance, but it's done slower, and with more thought than this all at once, destroy the economy, mandatory payment plan.

I hear stuff discussed from the Republican side like tort reform to save money from frivolous lawsuits on doctors, allowing people to buy insurance across state lines which will allow everybody access to the best plan, some sort of trigger system so when Insurance companies aren't pulling their weight a public option clicks into effect, not allowing illegal immigrants access to the percs of government funding, no third party bureaus deciding on what ailments, or people get priority, the possibility of some sort of co-op plan, and more. Basically though, they want to hash all these things out, decide what can, and can't work, have both parties agree upon something, then move ahead.

None of this is as black and white, either or, as you guys appear to think. Our own health care plan is not as bad as some have portrayed it to be. That's true, but it's not perfect either, and it is awful expensive. From the crazy-stupid peoples' perspective perhaps it might be a good idea to look at areas where government involvement in health care in other countries has fallen short, and make sure it doesn't happen to them.

The either-or guys see only the problems with the current American system, but that's not entirely true either. If it was why would people from countries with government funded plans be flocking to America for treatment? Why am I always hearing bitches about losing Canadian doctors, unreasonable wait times, or lack of beds, yet in America, not so much, not quite as bad? Is it possible there are some aspects of the American system worth saving? The "crazy-stupid" people seem to think so.

Also with the Americans looking at a possible economic meltdown on the horizon, is this necessarily the best time to jump immediately into a radical socialized plan which will create a labyrinth of new bureaucracies, monster costs, and less efficiency? What's the rush?

These guys you're calling crazy, and stupid for worrying about this sort of stuff, and thinking they're might be a better way have something else to worry about. There's another bill due to follow this one, and this bill, if passed, is going to create the largest tax increase in American history. It's also going to alter the economy, destroy jobs, offer up opportunities for abuse from the unscrupulous, and add even more controls and bureaucracy. It's called the Waxman-Markey Cap and Trade bill. The crazy-stupid people have added that into the equation.

I get it. In the this black and white, either or world you appear to think exists these guys are crazy and stupid for not wanting to accept the gift of care from mother government, but in their world they're seeing higher taxes, a glut of inefficient government controls, loss of jobs, a dismantling of the current American economic structure, and the loss of liberty. That's why Ma and Pa are willing to pack up the kids, and drive over to Washington from Nebraska, to participate in a rally.

[ManifestDestiny]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

[
I see Americans there. Not black, not white, Americans!

What's funny is how jumped up you all get when I state the glaringly obvious. And I mean funny. I'm bustin' a gut at that right now.

Whats glaringly obvious is that you and many other people on this forum are trying to belittle a protest that does not follow your agenda. I thought you guys were the free speech crowd whats going on?

[Newfy]

Here's an interesting article i've found about American Healthcare Tourism(Americans traveling to other countries for cheaper healthcare).

http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/usa-research/

Clearly the US government needs to do something whether nationalized healthcare or not. To have that many people having to travel abroad so they can afford treatment, I know it's only certain types, is pretty embarrasing.

And before anyone mentions people travelling to the US for treatment, I know they do but mainly for cosmetic treatments and only the wealthy or those that have saved for a long long time.

[N_Fiddledog]

Newfy Newfy:

And before anyone mentions people travelling to the US for treatment, I know they do but mainly for cosmetic treatments and only the wealthy or those that have saved for a long long time.

I can't count the amount of times I've seen a story on the evening news concerning some kid who has to go to America for an expensive life-saving operation. Usually there's some sort of money problem, so viewers send in money to get the kid the superior care he needs.

The cosmetic treatment critique would apply more to the link you gave where Americans travel to other countries for cheaper treatments insurance doesn't cover, not to take advantage of the wonders of socialized medicine in other countries.

[Newfy]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Newfy Newfy:

And before anyone mentions people travelling to the US for treatment, I know they do but mainly for cosmetic treatments and only the wealthy or those that have saved for a long long time.

I can't count the amount of times I've seen a story on the evening news concerning some kid who has to go to America for an expensive life-saving operation. Usually there's some sort of money problem, so viewers send in money to get the kid the superior care he needs.

The cosmetic treatment critique would apply more to the link you gave where Americans travel to other countries for cheaper treatments insurance doesn't cover, not to take advantage of the wonders of socialized medicine in other countries.

Fair enough, i'm only speaking from limited knowledge. On the same note, there are also many American families that can only get life saving care through charity and/or personal financial sacrifice. I don't know if you're aware of the tv show Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, but the amount of families they build new homes for because they've had to give up on renovations due to medical bills for very sick children or other family members seems to be endless.


I think what the show does is great as it highlights just how far communities are willing to go to help a local family in need but it also highlights what's wrong with the healthcare system at the moment.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

I can't count the amount of times I've seen a story on the evening news concerning some kid who has to go to America for an expensive life-saving operation. Usually there's some sort of money problem, so viewers send in money to get the kid the superior care he needs.

You had it...then you flew right over it and missed it entirely. I suppose when we finally 'smarten up' and adopt the American style of health 'care' we'll all just get on the evening news to get viewers to send in money that we don't have so that we can all get the life-saving operation we need. I mean that's what Americans do right? Oh right, no they don't. They go bankrupt or they go without...occasionally they come up here instead.

[bootlegga]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Newfy Newfy:

And before anyone mentions people travelling to the US for treatment, I know they do but mainly for cosmetic treatments and only the wealthy or those that have saved for a long long time.

I can't count the amount of times I've seen a story on the evening news concerning some kid who has to go to America for an expensive life-saving operation. Usually there's some sort of money problem, so viewers send in money to get the kid the superior care he needs.

The cosmetic treatment critique would apply more to the link you gave where Americans travel to other countries for cheaper treatments insurance doesn't cover, not to take advantage of the wonders of socialized medicine in other countries.

So, what about the thousands of Americans who came north in 2004/5 for flu immunizations? Did that mean we had a better system then?

[gigs]

bootlegga bootlegga:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Newfy Newfy:

And before anyone mentions people travelling to the US for treatment, I know they do but mainly for cosmetic treatments and only the wealthy or those that have saved for a long long time.

I can't count the amount of times I've seen a story on the evening news concerning some kid who has to go to America for an expensive life-saving operation. Usually there's some sort of money problem, so viewers send in money to get the kid the superior care he needs.

The cosmetic treatment critique would apply more to the link you gave where Americans travel to other countries for cheaper treatments insurance doesn't cover, not to take advantage of the wonders of socialized medicine in other countries.

So, what about the thousands of Americans who came north in 2004/5 for flu immunizations? Did that mean we had a better system then?

I wonder if Canadians will be heading south next month as the H1N1 vaccine will be available there 3 weeks before Canada.

It's all Harpers fault!!!

[Praxius]

gigs gigs:

I wonder if Canadians will be heading south next month as the H1N1 vaccine will be available there 3 weeks before Canada.

It's all Harpers fault!!!

Psh.... in 3 weeks we can see what their guinea pigs tell us about this vaccine. The US public is bombarded by so many drugs and perscriptions on TV, the radio, everywhere they go (Ever notice those commercials that's 30 seconds of what the drug does and 3 minutes listing the side effects and warnings of death?)

Oh well, I'm not getting the vaccine anyways.

In regards to the original report I just go around to reading.... I must say that's pretty sick that so many people there are so afraid of the big evil "S" word.

Last I checked Nazi Germany was Fascist, no Socialist, so I don't get the nazi-stash posters of Obama.

So many people bitched and complained down there that something needed to be done and when someone finally does something, they come out by the millions to protest and freak out about nazis, russians, BOOGA BOOGA!!!!

You know what?

Fk'EM.... seriously.

If they're going to be so wound up over something like this and make it out to be so damn evil, don't go ahead with it. Let them keep their current system as is and do nothing just like they want.

Then sit back and wait a few years to slowly watch the country crumble and collapse, more people get sick and dying, and have all these same moronic protesters come back to the White house to complain that nothing was done.....

GEEE I WONDER WHY!!!????

I kinda feel sorry for Obama really.... it's probably like leading a nation of goldfish with 10 second memories, or perhaps being the Mayor of Springfield.

Like goldfish because they keep forgetting wtf they wanted to have done in the first place, and like Springfield because in every Simpson episode, through all the crazy antics and what goes on, it all ends up exactly the same as how it all started.

Added:

Then again, what can one expect when like only 39% of the nation believes in evolution and most believe Athiests are the biggest threat to their way of life?

And people tell me that we relate more to the US then any other nation in the world like the UK or Australia?? Wow