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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:47 pm
 


lily lily:

Last time you tried this tactic I asked about the Taliban.

Just because someone *wants* their religious views to be reflected in their laws doesn't mean they should be. So once again you fail to make a point.

Please try again. As far as I'm concerned this is very much a black and white issue. Unless you can come up with ONE good reason to prohibit SSMs, you're done here.


Heh. Well the first part you are absolutely correct on, you asked about the Taliban and I was called away from the forum. I'll answer that first.

The Taliban wants to kill millions of people and inflict physical and economic harm on an enormous group of people regardless of their views or actions. Christians against SSM want the institution of marriage to remain what it was in the first place, before there were laws dictating it. That is the difference.

And actually just because someone wants their religious views to be reflected in their laws DOES mean they should be, if they live in a democratic country. Which we do. So I'm not sure what you're talking about... that's the way it works.

I'm aware that you think of this as a black and white issue, that is why I have been patient in explaining to you why people think as they do. I'm afraid I cannot, however, prevent you from listening to what I'm saying, or forcing you to be less closed-minded.

As far as continuing to claim that religious views and a democratic law process don't count as a reason, I'm not sure what to say. That's the reality that is occurring. That is why we vote, and loads of people vote with their God.

Last point, I'm not sure if you're a mod or what, threatening to kick me off the boards or whatever, but I don't think I've broken any rules. If your statement simply meant that you would ignore me if I didn't play by your rules, I think you're probably out of luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:49 pm
 


Eisensapper Eisensapper:
simjanes2k your whole religious right to govern law can shut down with the question:
"would you pull an ass out of a pit on the Sabbath?"


I don't really get it... is this supposed to be a really in-depth joke about Jews and their holidays? Or literally, would you break a religious law to save your wallet?

Sorry, I am too dense for your northern humour.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:50 pm
 


Eisensapper Eisensapper:
To say religion dictates law in this day and age is just flat out wrong. Moral right and wrong is determined by, what Richard Dawkins refers to as a "Moral Zeitgiest". This is a theory that states the collective view on a subject is every changing with the time, like an invisible specter, views that were held true 5, 10, 50 years ago have evolved into something else. I am fine with Theists ignoring sense and logic, its just when it seriously effects other peoples lives I have an issue with it.


Actually religion DOES dictate some laws in this day and age. I refer you to proposal 8 of California's Nov. 4, 2008 vote.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:52 pm
 


simjanes2k simjanes2k:
And actually just because someone wants their religious views to be reflected in their laws DOES mean they should be, if they live in a democratic country. Which we do. So I'm not sure what you're talking about... that's the way it works.

The corner stone of western society is SECULAR GOVERNMENT. Religion should NEVER trump personal rights.


Last edited by roger-roger on Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:53 pm
 


simjanes2k simjanes2k:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
To say religion dictates law in this day and age is just flat out wrong. Moral right and wrong is determined by, what Richard Dawkins refers to as a "Moral Zeitgiest". This is a theory that states the collective view on a subject is every changing with the time, like an invisible specter, views that were held true 5, 10, 50 years ago have evolved into something else. I am fine with Theists ignoring sense and logic, its just when it seriously effects other peoples lives I have an issue with it.


Actually religion DOES dictate some laws in this day and age. I refer you to proposal 8 of California's Nov. 4, 2008 vote.

No people are voting that way because of their biggoted view on human rights, if religion did dictate law people would be killed left and right for not following the 10 commandments.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:58 pm
 


Alrighty then. I guess you know of some people voting against SSM for another reason, besides religion. I know I haven't met any, and I'm kinda surrounded by them.

I'm pretty sure the reality is people ARE voting that way, because of their "biggoted view on human rights." Even if the United States doesn't enact all Old Testament punishments into federal law, people are voting with their Church.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:03 pm
 


BEING MARRIED IS NOT A HUMAN RIGHT, ARE YOU PEOPLE ALL FUCKED IN THE HEAD ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:04 pm
 


simjanes2k simjanes2k:


The simple fact of our argument here on Canadaka.net is that if you do not respect any form of religion as a guiding force of a large number of people, and that those people want their laws to reflect it, you will never have a meaningful conversation with a conservative.


Actually, not all Conservatives espouse religious doctrines. In fact, depending upon the context, some ideological conservatives are quite secular in outlook

Oh...and marriage evolves over time...you're witnessing another one right now.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:05 pm
 


lily lily:
simjanes2k simjanes2k:
Alrighty then. I guess you know of some people voting against SSM for another reason, besides religion. I know I haven't met any, and I'm kinda surrounded by them.

I'm pretty sure the reality is people ARE voting that way, because of their "biggoted view on human rights." Even if the United States doesn't enact all Old Testament punishments into federal law, people are voting with their Church.


As an atheist, how can you cite religious beliefs as a valid reason to ban SSMs?

This oughtta be good. [popcorn]

Oh yes cant wait for this [popcorn]


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:06 pm
 


being told you can marry because you are gay IS AGAINST A BASIC RIGHT AND FREEDOM. It is the same as saying you cannot marry her, she is black!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:07 pm
 


so just call it gay union with the same rights as marriage


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:07 pm
 


Eisensapper Eisensapper:
being told you can marry because you are gay IS AGAINST A BASIC RIGHT AND FREEDOM. It is the same as saying you cannot marry her, she is black!


BULLSHIT


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:08 pm
 


hwacker hwacker:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
being told you can marry because you are gay IS AGAINST A BASIC RIGHT AND FREEDOM. It is the same as saying you cannot marry her, she is black!


BULLSHIT

Give a concrete reason as to why this is Bullshit.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:08 pm
 


mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:
so just call it gay union with the same rights as marriage


DONE, FINE I"LL GO WITH THAT.

MARRIAGE IS OFF LIMITS IN CALI. GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE THERE BEING ABLE TO SHUT DOWN THE QUEER MOVEMENT.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:11 pm
 


TattoodGirl TattoodGirl:
hwacker hwacker:
Eisensapper Eisensapper:
being told you can marry because you are gay IS AGAINST A BASIC RIGHT AND FREEDOM. It is the same as saying you cannot marry her, she is black!


BULLSHIT

Give a concrete reason as to why this is Bullshit.


BECAUSE


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