[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, then perhaps you should call yourself an 'Old Testamentian', not a Christian if you can't follow his teachings...

My statements aren't a criticism of you in particular Bart (or any other Christians on CKA), but it was hypocrisy such as this that made me turn my back on Christianity as a whole. I was raised a good Christian lad and went to church and Sunday school and all that, but once I was old enough to question the inherent hypocrisy I saw all around me (Sunday Christians, people bragging about how much they put in the collect plate, the dichotomy between Jesus and an eye for and eye), I was really turned off organized religion and I've never gone back.

#1 I am not a hypocrite. I am the very first person to remind anyone who brings it up that I am not a very good Christian nor am I a role model for children. I strive to be a better Christian but you're just going to have to deal with the fact that I don't turn the other cheek and I don't sit on my ass praying for help when sh*t goes down. I do something about it. If you think that every person who goes to church has to be some sort of pacifist pussy then you need to deal with your stereotypes and get past them.

#2 Churches are for sinners. I EXPECT them to be filled with imperfect, sinful people who are hopefully there to seek some change in their souls. The perfect people you seem to want to see at church do not need to be in church since they have already achived a state of perfection. I've never seen any such people so I'm unsure why you expect to see them.

#3 I understand that you now have a bias against organized religion but perhaps you just haven't looked in the right places. I attended a couple of churches where the people played at church and they played sick little power struggles over total BS. Now for the past four years I've attended a small town community church where the people really do live what is preached on Sunday and my wife and I are thrilled to be welcomed into such a warm, loving, and wonderful group of people who really, really get it.

People suck, I agree. A lot of churches are populated by people who suck. Look around, though, and maybe you'll get lucky like I did.

To be right up front with you, when my wife and I went looking for a new church in 2004 I was about done with going to church at all. I was sick of the idiots who played stupid little games, I was sick of the self-proclaimed Biblical scholars, and I was seriously sick of the quasi-pacifists who thought that it was okay for other people to die for their principles but if push came to shove they'd kill to protect their own family and their own sorry ass <<< and that's a PASTOR I'm talking about there!!!

So I know how you feel because I've been there. And I nearly quit, too.

So keep looking or at least be open to finding a decent church family because you don't want to miss something great.

[Delwin]

I wonder if Palin's daughter concieved the child in Alaska, in may states this would be considered statutory rape. In fact, for a U.S. citizen outside of the U.S. the age is 18. I wonder if Sarah Palin will work to have this age lowered in some of the other states like McCain's home state of Arizona, you know, just in case the kids get "frisky" on the campaign trail. I guess in some states, social values is pretty important.

[ridenrain]

Since we're getting all religious, I wonder what Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright would say about this?

[travior]

Delwin Delwin:

I wonder if Palin's daughter concieved the child in Alaska, in may states this would be considered statutory rape. In fact, for a U.S. citizen outside of the U.S. the age is 18. I wonder if Sarah Palin will work to have this age lowered in some of the other states like McCain's home state of Arizona, you know, just in case the kids get "frisky" on the campaign trail. I guess in some states, social values is pretty important.

Actually, that it not correct...

The Federal Law regarding sex outside of the us:

{Chapter 117, 18 U.S.C. 2423(b)} forbids travelling in interstate or foreign commerce to engage in "illicit sexual conduct" with a minor. 2423(f) refers to Chapter 109A as its bright line for defining "illicit sexual conduct", as far as non-commercial sexual activity is concerned. For the purposes of age of consent, the only provision applicable is {Chapter 109A, 18 U.S.C. 2243(a)}. 2243(a) refers to situations where such younger person is under the age of 16 years, has attained 12 years of age, and the older person is more than 4 years older than the 12-15 year old (persons under 12 are handled under 18 U.S.C. 2241(c) under aggravated sexual abuse). So, the age is 12 years if one is within 4 years of the 12-15 year old's age, 16 under all other circumstances. This most likely reflects Congressional intent to not unduly interfere with a state's age of consent law, which would have been the case if the age was set to 18 under all circumstances. This law is also extraterritorial in nature to U.S. Citizens and Residents who travel outside of the United States.

As far as Alaska'a Laws:

Alaska
The age of consent is 16, provided the older partner is not in a position of authority.

Alaska Statutes - Title 11. Criminal Law - Chapter 41. Offenses Against the Person - Sexual Abuse of a Minor
Section 436 in the First Degree (Unclassified Felony) ; Section 436 in the Second Degree (Class B Felony) ;
Section 438 in the Third Degree (Class C Felony) ; Section 440 : in the Fourth Degree (Class A misdemeanor)

Sexual Abuse of a Minor in the .... :

Younger minor under 13 + Elder minor under 16 ( more than 3 years between them ) :
Sexual contact = 4th Degree & Sexual penetration = 3rd Degree
Younger minor under 13 + Elder minor above 16 :
pornography = 2nd Degree ( younger under 16 vs. elder above 16 )
Sexual contact = 2nd Degree ( for elder minor oneself or if (s)he helps another person)
Sexual penetration = 1st Degree ( for elder minor oneself or if (s)he helps another person)
Younger minor 13-15 + Elder minor above 16 ( more than 3 years between them ) :
Sexual contact = 3rd Degree
Sexual penetration = 2nd Degree ( for elder minor oneself or if (s)he helps another person)
pornography = 2nd Degree ( younger under 16 vs. elder above 16 )
Minor under 16 + partner above 18 (civil majority) if cohabitant with authority or position of authority :
Sexual contact = 2nd Degree & Sexual penetration = 1st Degree.
Minor under 18 + parent or guardian above 18 :
Sexual contact = 2nd Degree & Sexual penetration = 1st Degree
Indecent Exposure :
with masturbation, in front of minor under 16 = Indecent Exposure in the 1st Degree (Class C Felony)
simply, in front of minor under 16 = Indecent Exposure in the 2nd Degree (Class A misdemeanor)
simply, in front of above 16 = Indecent Exposure in the 2nd Degree (Class B misdemeanor).

[Delwin]

You are still sidestepping the point that this it would be illegal in some states:

$1:

Idaho
The age of consent in Idaho is 18 in ordinary circumstances with no close in age exception as specified in the Idaho statutes 18-1601

Oregon
The age of consent in Oregon is 18. Sexual offenses are defined under the Oregon Revised Statutes Chapter 163. With regards to age only, the following offenses are defined.

18 - Consent for all laws.
Under 18 - Defined as Sexual Abuse 3 (Class A Misdemeanor)
Under 16 - Defined as Rape 3 / Sodomy 3 (Class C Felony) (ORS 163.245)
Under 14 - Defined as Rape 2 / Sodomy 2 (Class B Felony)
Under 12 - Defined as Rape 1 / Sodomy 1 (Class A Felony)

[C.M. Burns]

Palin's former Pastor

$1:

A review of recorded sermons by Ed Kalnins, the senior pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God since 1999, offers a provocative and, for some, eyebrow-raising sketch of Palin's longtime spiritual home.

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

It is impossible to determine how much Wasilla Assembly of God has shaped Palin's thinking. She was baptized there at the age of 12 and attended the church for most of her adult life. When Palin was inaugurated as governor, the founding pastor of the church delivered the invocation. In 2002, Palin moved her family to a nondenominational church, but she continues to worship at a related Assembly of God church in Juneau.

Moreover, she "has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here," Kalnins' office said in a statement. "As for her personal beliefs," the statement added, "Governor Palin is well able to speak for herself on those issues."

...

And if the political storm over Barack Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright is any indication, Palin may face some political fallout over the more controversial teachings of Wasilla Assembly of God.

If the church had a political alignment, it would almost surely be conservative. In his sermons, Kalnins did not hide his affections for certain national politicians.

During the 2004 election season, he praised President Bush's performance during a debate with Sen. John Kerry, then offered a not-so-subtle message about his personal candidate preferences. "I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry." Kalnins added: "If every Christian will vote righteously, it would be a landslide every time."

Months after hinting at possible damnation for Kerry supporters, Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government's handling of Hurricane Katrina. "I hate criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get you."

Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a "world war" over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.

What you see in a terrorist -- that's called the invisible enemy. There has always been an invisible enemy. What you see in Iraq, basically, is a manifestation of what's going on in this unseen world called the spirit world. ... We need to think like Jesus thinks. We are in a time and a season of war, and we need to think like that. We need to develop that instinct. We need to develop as believers the instinct that we are at war, and that war is contending for your faith. ... Jesus called us to die. You're worried about getting hurt? He's called us to die. Listen, you know we can't even follow him unless you are willing to give up your life. ... I believe that Jesus himself operated from that position of war mode. Everyone say "war mode." Now you say, wait a minute Ed, he's like the good shepherd, he's loving all the time and he's kind all the time. Oh yes he is -- but I also believe that he had a part of his thoughts that knew that he was in a war.

As for his former congregant and current vice presidential candidate, Kalnins has asserted that Palin's election as governor was the result of a "prophetic call" by another pastor at the church who prayed for her victory. "[He made] a prophetic declaration and then unfolds the kingdom of God, you know."

Even Palin expressed surprise at that pastor's advocacy for her candidacy. "He was praying over me," she said in June. "He's praying, 'Lord make a way, Lord make a way...' And I'm thinking, this guy's really bold, he doesn't even know what I'm gonna do, he doesn't know what my plans are, and he's praying not, 'Oh Lord, if it be your will may she become governor,' or whatever. No, he just prayed for it. He said, 'Lord, make a way, and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened. So, again, very very powerful coming from this church."

In his sermons, Pastor Kalnins has also expressed beliefs that, while not directly political, lie outside of mainstream Christian thought.

He preaches repeatedly about the "end times" or "last days," an apocalyptic prophesy held by a small but vocal group of Christian leaders. During his appearance with Palin in June, he declared, "I believe Alaska is one of the refuge states in the last days, and hundreds of thousands of people are going to come to the state to seek refuge and the church has to be ready to minister to them."

He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God, providing him information about past events in other people's lives. During one sermon, he described being paired with a complete stranger during a golf outing. "I said, I'm a minister from Alaska and I want you to know that your wife left you -- you know that your wife left you and that the Lord is gonna defend you in a very short time, and it wasn't your fault. And the man drops his clubs, he literally was about to tee off and he dropped his clubs, and he says, 'Who the blank are you?' And I says, 'well, I'm a minister.' He says, 'how do you know about my life? What do you know?' And I started giving him more of the word of knowledge to his life and he was freaked out."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 23205.html

I'm sure that every member of Palin's church believes her daughter is going to hell.

[hwacker]

The CBC's bogus smear on Sarah Palin






Jonathan Kay, National Post
Published: Thursday, September 04, 2008




Afew weeks ago, I wrote a column arguing that readers will miss the mainstream media when we're gone. Oh sure, bloggers have a lot of spicy opinions. But when it comes to investigating important stories, they don't hold a candle to big, deep-pocketed, old-fashioned newspaper writers and broadcast media outlets.

Imagine my embarrassment, then, when it turned out this week that the flagship newscast on the biggest, deep-pocketedest, old-fashionedest Canadian media outlet of them all -- the taxpayer-funded CBC--got suckered into reporting a story that the blogosphere chewed up, debunked and spit out two days earlier.

The story revolves around Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, who on Friday was announced as John McCain's pick for VP candidate. Almost immediately, a weird rumour took flight: that Palin's fifth child, four-month-old baby, Trig, was actually born to her 17-year-old daughter, Bristol. According to sources swirling feverishly around left-wing clearinghouse Daily Kos, Sarah had fraudulently claimed maternity of the child while Bristol was removed from school under a phony excuse involving mononucleosis.

Many conservatives were concerned. A Michigan-based political-junkie friend of mine--a tireless Web surfer who acts as a sort of human RSS feeder for his friends -- sent out a worried e-mail on Friday night declaring: "I think that the accusation … is credible enough to require evidence --more than just words --in reply."

But then the rumour fell apart. Photos surfaced of Sarah, clearly pregnant, going about her gubernatorial duties in early 2008. It was also established that Bristol is five months pregnant right now -- making the rumour a biological impossibility. "I shouldn't have dignified this with an e-mail," my friend reported rumour -- even before it had been debunked. The Daily Kos itself shut up about the subject from Monday onwards.

But on Tuesday night -- two full days after the rumour was killed -- CBC's The National went live with it.

"Sarah Palin was strangely absent from public view today," reporter Neil Macdonald told viewers from the Republican convention in Minnesota. "The story surrounding her grew ever stranger, too."

"It's baby Trig who's generating the questions," Macdonald went on. "There are the pictures of [Sarah] Palin looking slim just weeks before the April birth. In March, the Anchorage Daily News reported that Palin 'simply doesn't look pregnant.' Then, there was the birth itself. Palin was in Texas on April 17 when her water broke, but she went ahead with a speech, then, rather than checking into a hospital, she headed back to Alaska." (The CBC provided a helpful map showing Palin's lengthy plane ride, with dramatic-sounding music.)

"There is no record of the birth," Macdonald added somewhat breathlessly. "Some suspect that Trig is actually Palin's grandson, and that Bristol, the now-pregnant teenage daughter, is the baby's real mother."

All total nonsense, of course. Total taxpayer-funded nonsense.

This is more than just a tiny factual slip-up. This was a marquee segment on the CBC's crown jewel -- The National -- delivered by the network's Washington correspondent at a major political event. How is it that Macdonald would base his whole story on a political hoax that thousands of humble Web surfers like my friend had debunked a full two days earlier?

Putting aside the role of Macdonald -- who has a history of left-wing smears for which the CBC has later had to apologize -- how did no one at the CBC catch this? As taxpayers, doesn't our $1-billion buy us a fact-checker or two?

Left-wing bias from the CBC-- that we expect. But rank amateurism is unforgivable. If this is the face of the mainstream media, maybe they won't miss us so much when we're gone.

jkay@nationalpost.com


http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_pape ... ?id=767602

[C.M. Burns]