[DerbyX]

canuckns canuckns:

DerbyX DerbyX:

10 years old is old enough to be left alone for short periods in their own house.

The conduct of the police officers was reprehensible and inexcusable. Their reaction to a noise complaint was beyond overkill and their subsequent treatment of the 10 year old was IMO criminal behaviour. The police should be charged with child endangerment and whatever misconduct rules they may have broken.

Handcuffing a 10 year old in his own house for a simple noise complaint?

Then the police wonder why they have a public relations problem.

How about this for starters...

That comment makes me a "Liberal asshat"?

How about your belief that the cops were wrong to handcuff the child where others say they were 100% correct? Can they call you an asshat because they don't agree?

How about those that attacked the RCMP actions? Are they asshats also?

Look, I have no problem with you and didn't up until you started insulting me.

If you think that cops kicking down doors and handcuffing children is perfectly OK then thats your opinion. Mine differs.

In addition, the door kicking and handcuffing are seperate events. Even if somebody holds the belief that they were right in responding how they did they stiff have to deal with the fact that instead of reacting like they should have to a bunch of goofing around kids they went way overboard and caused a whole ruckus (which will likely cause their boss alot of headaches) when they should have easily handled the situation with a minimal fuss and bother.

Handcuffing a 10 year old who was obviously not out shoplifting or vandalizing was overkill and a public relations disaster. Instead of everybody saying that they handled the situation like trained professionals we have the opposite.

They are supposed to diffuse situations not aggravate them. I;ve worked loads of bars and every night the bouncers could easily escalate any number of situations to a fight where they "had no other opotion but to use violence". The goods ones are trained to prevent this even in the face of provocation. Thats their job.

If you think otherwise then fine but dragging policital views into this when they have no relevance or bearing on the debate just makes your position look weak and your argument in question not to mention thats its a deliberate inflammatory tactic.

Its far to early to argue with you and like I've said I have no problem with you. If you do with me thats fine but I'm not going to continue arguing. I've made my points in the debate and I'll wait to hear the opinion of Eyebrock and Dayseed and a few others who usually involve themselves in these subject matters.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

[TheQuietKidd]

Derby, have you ever seen a grown man come home and burst into tears because some kids that were left alone decided to jump in a pool, or play with a knife, or the stove, etc.? Do you know some of the horrid things that some police officers have seen, some of the absolute gut wrenching scenes that they've witnessed because a child who was left alone made one little mistake and ended up dead because of it?
Now, pretend you're one of these men, maybe you've got a couple kids of your own back home, and all of a sudden you've got reports of children, possibly intoxicated and wielding highly dangerous objects. I know I would fucking FREAK out and over-react, even cops have emotions, and I doubt there's much more that can release them in such a way as young children can.

Oh, and tell me, what would have happened if these kids sword fighting with pussy-willows had decided to make it look more like the movies? Raid the knife drawer, maybe they're smart enough not to actually hit each other, but then one slips, falls, then we would have had one extremely unfortunate situation on our hands. Or even the chance, the child, who was naturally scared, decided to run off from the police, possibly into a busy street, I'm sure you've tried to control a rambunctious 10 year old, you've either got to hold 'em tight or they'll slip away, the cuffs probably hurt a little less than a very tight, firm grip around the child's arm.

In a nutshell, I'm willing to bet that some of these cops were more scared for the children than the children, or their parents, will ever be able to comprehend.

[Brenda]

Cops can have emotions. AFTER they do their job correctly. They are trained to do so.

The rest is speculation.

[DerbyX]

TheQuietKidd TheQuietKidd:

Derby, have you ever seen a grown man come home and burst into tears because some kids that were left alone decided to jump in a pool, or play with a knife, or the stove, etc.? Do you know some of the horrid things that some police officers have seen, some of the absolute gut wrenching scenes that they've witnessed because a child who was left alone made one little mistake and ended up dead because of it?
Now, pretend you're one of these men, maybe you've got a couple kids of your own back home, and all of a sudden you've got reports of children, possibly intoxicated and wielding highly dangerous objects. I know I would fucking FREAK out and over-react, even cops have emotions, and I doubt there's much more that can release them in such a way as young children can.

Oh, and tell me, what would have happened if these kids sword fighting with pussy-willows had decided to make it look more like the movies? Raid the knife drawer, maybe they're smart enough not to actually hit each other, but then one slips, falls, then we would have had one extremely unfortunate situation on our hands. Or even the chance, the child, who was naturally scared, decided to run off from the police, possibly into a busy street, I'm sure you've tried to control a rambunctious 10 year old, you've either got to hold 'em tight or they'll slip away, the cuffs probably hurt a little less than a very tight, firm grip around the child's arm.

In a nutshell, I'm willing to bet that some of these cops were more scared for the children than the children, or their parents, will ever be able to comprehend.

Have you ever seen a child so abused by an adult they were to traumatized even to talk?

If you read the report then the parents and child are really objecting to the treatment well after the fact.

You guys can speculate that this was an out of control orgy of violence when all it really was, was a bunch of kids horsing around.

Note that the cops did not support the meat cleaver story nor did the kid or parents explain it because all we have is the unsubstantiated testimony of the neighbour.

Again, all that would support would be the initial response and not the subsequent responses.

What if they had shot the kid? What if the truth was that the neighbour was embellishing her story in order to make the cops take the call more seriously and thus respond more quickly then they normally would? What if they had kicked in the door all jacked up on those emotions you just mentioned and caught a fleeting glimpse of one child pointing a toy gun at another child and in a split second decision shot that kid?

What then?

We can speculate to the extreme easily.

Deal with the facts at hand.

The facts show that it wasn't an out of control kid but a scared kid in a situation that the police had full control over and full knowledge of what was really going on. The handcuffing happened long after they had verbeally abused the poor kid and further compounded their error by calling CPS.

This wasn't a case of them handcuffing an out of control child hopped up on coke nor a case of handcuffing somebody during a routine stop on the side of the road.

This was a case of multiple police officers with full control of the entire situation who had to resort to handcuffing a 10 year old child.

[Brenda]

I agree with you Derb.

I also think the parents should have known better then to leave 5 10 year olds alone.
I also think they shouldn´t complain about what happened, but that they should have kicked the butts of the kids.
But the cops shouldn´t have cuffed the kid, period.

[canuckns]

DerbyX DerbyX:

canuckns canuckns:

DerbyX DerbyX:

10 years old is old enough to be left alone for short periods in their own house.

The conduct of the police officers was reprehensible and inexcusable. Their reaction to a noise complaint was beyond overkill and their subsequent treatment of the 10 year old was IMO criminal behaviour. The police should be charged with child endangerment and whatever misconduct rules they may have broken.

Handcuffing a 10 year old in his own house for a simple noise complaint?

Then the police wonder why they have a public relations problem.

How about this for starters...

That comment makes me a "Liberal asshat"?

How about your belief that the cops were wrong to handcuff the child where others say they were 100% correct? Can they call you an asshat because they don't agree?

How about those that attacked the RCMP actions? Are they asshats also?

Look, I have no problem with you and didn't up until you started insulting me.

If you think that cops kicking down doors and handcuffing children is perfectly OK then thats your opinion. Mine differs.

In addition, the door kicking and handcuffing are seperate events. Even if somebody holds the belief that they were right in responding how they did they stiff have to deal with the fact that instead of reacting like they should have to a bunch of goofing around kids they went way overboard and caused a whole ruckus (which will likely cause their boss alot of headaches) when they should have easily handled the situation with a minimal fuss and bother.

Handcuffing a 10 year old who was obviously not out shoplifting or vandalizing was overkill and a public relations disaster. Instead of everybody saying that they handled the situation like trained professionals we have the opposite.

They are supposed to diffuse situations not aggravate them. I;ve worked loads of bars and every night the bouncers could easily escalate any number of situations to a fight where they "had no other opotion but to use violence". The goods ones are trained to prevent this even in the face of provocation. Thats their job.

If you think otherwise then fine but dragging policital views into this when they have no relevance or bearing on the debate just makes your position look weak and your argument in question not to mention thats its a deliberate inflammatory tactic.

Its far to early to argue with you and like I've said I have no problem with you. If you do with me thats fine but I'm not going to continue arguing. I've made my points in the debate and I'll wait to hear the opinion of Eyebrock and Dayseed and a few others who usually involve themselves in these subject matters.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Yeah your right I did not think the kid should have been handcuffed. Until I read the rest of the article. The fact that the niehbourgh [sp] called reporting a MEAT CLEAVER is enough for those officers to draw thier weapons.

I have been in a COMBAT situation.

[Brenda]

No. The fact that a neighbour reported a meat cleaver is NOT enough to draw weapons for. The fact the officers saw it with their own eyes should have made them put themselves in a negotiating position, telling the kid to put it down. That kid should have been scared enough by the police intrusion (sp) anyway.

A little respect for the law is a good thing, even for kids

[Brenda]

lily lily:

Derby Derby:

You guys can speculate that this was an out of control orgy of violence when all it really was, was a bunch of kids horsing around.

Are you in possession of more facts than the rest of us? Because all I see from you is speculation.

Brenda Brenda:

No. The fact that a neighbour reported a meat cleaver is NOT enough to draw weapons for. The fact the officers saw it with their own eyes should have made them put themselves in a negotiating position, telling the kid to put it down.

They put their weapons away when they entered to house. Prior to that they had no idea what they were dealing with and had weapons drawn - as they should have.

The part that none of us knows... is what happened between the cops putting their guns back in their holsters and handcuffing the kid.

There's nore to this story than the kid - and his parents - are telling.

Euhmmm, I answered Canuckns post

We will never know, and of course there is more. There is always more then there is told. Still, the parents should just stfu and take control over their kids and their friends. Kids are not "holy". Kids make mistakes. It is up to the parents to protect them, and teach them right from wrong. Leaving 5 10 year old alone (even for half an hour) could mean disaster.

I blame the parents here. They should have prevented it, instead of demanding apologies.

The cops should have known better then to treat a 10 year old like an adult.

[Brenda]

lily lily:

I agree with everything you said... but I'll withhold judgement on the last part. I've seen 10 year olds that could use cuffing.


Not my own, of course......

And that is what it all comes down to

[ShepherdsDog]

While we like to think that children are wonderful little angels, those that deal with them on a regular basis know better. Most kids, like most people are good, but James Bulger's assailants were (though an extreme rarity) were only 10. I worked in an area for years that had kid's under 10 carrying and using weapons of war. Accidents also happen.

The police may not have acted in the best way, but the way this is going is not the best way to go either. It wasn't so long ago, that it would be the parents apologizing to the police over such poorly behaved children. Like most Canadians I've had nothing but positive experiences with Canadian police officers. I've been respectful, rather than confrontational and have had been treated respectfully in return. I've also had the experience of working in RCMP holding cells for a few years and I've seen people turn nasty for no more reason than they see the uniform. ' I pay your wages' seems to be the most common insult, not realizing this cop pays more in taxes than they likely make in a year, or if they were from the rez side they contributed SFA to anything. I've found that those who have had negative experiences with the police have brought it on themselves and are deserving of their unpleasantries.

[Brenda]

$1:

It wasn't so long ago, that it would be the parents apologizing to the police over such poorly behaved children.

Nail on the head.

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

It wasn't so long ago, that it would be the parents apologizing to the police over such poorly behaved children.

Nail on the head.

It wasn't so long ago that all the police would do with rowdy children is let their parents sort it out also.

[Brenda]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

It wasn't so long ago, that it would be the parents apologizing to the police over such poorly behaved children.

Nail on the head.

It wasn't so long ago that all the police would do with rowdy children is let their parents sort it out also.

True too.

[Arctic_Menace]

There was always this one phrase that kept me in check as a small child...

"Don't make me tell your Dad..."

[Brenda]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

There was always this one phrase that kept me in check as a small child...

"Don't make me tell your Dad..."

I was never told that. It wouldn't have made a big impression either