[ryan29]

ridenrain ridenrain:

This event has been quietly cancelled...
but you didn't hear about it on the CBC.

poor liberals how are they going to pay for there campaign , just kinding that is there problem and i could care less .

wonder what kind of bizare fundraisers they will think of next ?

some suggestions

- dates with various mp's and candidates ( the more you pay the better the date is )

- singed autographed pictures of stephane dion

- guided trip of former liberal ridings to remember the good old days

- guided tour of ridings the liberals have not won in places like alberta , so liberals from toronto can see what a non-liberal riding looks like

- maybe think of some more later

[ryan29]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

ridenrain ridenrain:

This event has been quietly cancelled...
but you didn't hear about it on the CBC.

Of course it wasn't on the CBC, it was the Liberal party not the conservative party. This would be big time news followed up with demands for public inquiries if it were the conservatives.

*holy cow, I go to work and come home and theres a five pages on this thread

i know i didn't even notice it till now

[ridenrain]

ryan29 ryan29:

ridenrain ridenrain:

This event has been quietly cancelled...
but you didn't hear about it on the CBC.

poor liberals how are they going to pay for there campaign

Like any other Liberals: Power Corp/Desmarais

Their Bay Street Buddies, of course.

[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

Sorry to drag up a post from a few pages back but oilfield workers were also specifically targeted. We are seasonal workers and as such were denied EI. Mean while fishermen from down east were still entitled to EI. Here’s the funny part, when the fishing industry was slumping all the newfie’s (excuse the slang) came here to work, once they had enough time banked they would all quit and go back home and sit on pogey. It was almost funny, mid February 80% of the newfie’s on the job would just up and take off. Mean while the workers from Alberta would stick around until break up (April) and be denied EI. Go figure.

The issue concerning who can collect EI and under what circumstances is a valid argument, If you cannot collect it EI then you shouldn't be paying into it and as far as I know that includes seasonal workers and contract type work like construction. My uncle worked construction all his life and never paid EI nor collected it. Of course he rarely paid taxes either.

However the sticking points are these and please feel free to actually address any of them since nobody else has bothered instead resorting to single party complaining.

1) If you (a metaphoric you)are so concerned that the EI fund is being plundered then why are you not complaining about the fact that Harper now controls it and is doing the exact same thing. Not one single person here complaining about the EI fund has ever so much as admitted that Harper is doing it let alone condemned him. That indicates that they don't actually dislike the practice but rather dislike the fact the Liberals were doing it. Its perfectly OK if Harper does it right?

2) Using the EI fund to lower debt thereby lowering taxes at least gives some of the money back to the people who paid into it and who will never see it again. Ideally, if they ran it as a zero profit sum with yearly surplus refunds that would be better but at least this way I'm getting back some of the money I paid in and likely won't see unless I decide to become unemployed.

3) EI contributions are deducted from taxes owing and those taxes were going into the general fund anyway. Even if you weren't paying EI you would still be paying the same amount of tax.

4) The large majority of conservative posters on this forum usually condemn the Liberals for being a "tax and spend" party and of being a socialist welfare state supporting party. It is a direct contradiction to then complain that the party which suppossedly favours supporting everybody through welfare programs is now somehow unjustly denying those very people the promised welfare aid. Previously the complaints were that anybody in Canada (under a Liberal gov't) who wanted to live off the taxpayer could just go on EI/welfare and suckle at the taxpayers teat forever. The cons on this forum have forgotten entirely that it was the PCs who were the worst offenders for this policy and the Liberals who tightened up the reins.

Addenum: If anybody is truly concerned taht not enough people have access to EI/welfare then they should vote NDP because Stephen "the best welfare program is a job" Harper has absolutely no intention of relaxing EI rules. I'm sure Layton would be more then happy to make sure that anybody who wants EI will get it.

5) If you disagree with any of the above then it does you absolutely no good to bitch about the Liberals all the while meekly accepting the exact same actions by the CPC. You would think the people here would be bitching that the CPC was doing the same dman thing and that they won't accept it from somebody they expected better of. Just remember that without that 10+ billion EI surplus that Harper used we might not have had a GST cut, or paid down the debt as much, or bought (insert military purchase).

6) If you hold the opinion that the money should be paid back then no problem. I'll tell Dion thats what you expect. We will vote him in come springtime and he will simply add 50+ billion dollars to the national debt and transfer the money into a seperate EI account. Hell, he even tell everybody that they can feel free to quit their job and live off unemployment for as long as they want, well until the money runs out that is. Problem solved.

[ziggy]

$1:

Sorry to drag up a post from a few pages back but oilfield workers were also specifically targeted. We are seasonal workers and as such were denied EI. Mean while fishermen from down east were still entitled to EI. Here’s the funny part, when the fishing industry was slumping all the newfie’s (excuse the slang) came here to work, once they had enough time banked they would all quit and go back home and sit on pogey. It was almost funny, mid February 80% of the newfie’s on the job would just up and take off. Mean while the workers from Alberta would stick around until break up (April) and be denied EI. Go figure.

I hear ya! Saw that lots pipelining,get enough stamps and head home.Makes for a huge turnover but I find the ones who stayed are now into management or #1's or #2's on the line and they bring in all their buds from the east.Damn newfies are trying to take over the west.

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

1) If you (a metaphoric you)are so concerned that the EI fund is being plundered then why are you not complaining about the fact that Harper now controls it and is doing the exact same thing. Not one single person here complaining about the EI fund has ever so much as admitted that Harper is doing it let alone condemned him. That indicates that they don't actually dislike the practice but rather dislike the fact the Liberals were doing it. Its perfectly OK if Harper does it right?

I’m not bitching about the “Liberals” plundering the EI fund because .. well .. the conservatives are doing it too. I tend to be a little less vocal when it’s the party I support doing the bungling. (well at least I’m honest about it ) Regardless of who’s dipping their paws into the fund though it should be stopped. If government of the day wants to use it for general revenues and people who are not eligible to collect it must still pay into it then it should be called what it is, a tax.

Noticed you were away for a few days Derb, good to see ya back.

ziggy ziggy:

I hear ya! Saw that lots pipelining,get enough stamps and head home.Makes for a huge turnover but I find the ones who stayed are now into management or #1's or #2's on the line and they bring in all their buds from the east.Damn newfies are trying to take over the west.

I have to give the newfie’s some credit though, they are hard workers. I just wish I could understand what the hell the buggers are saying half the time.

[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

DerbyX DerbyX:

1) If you (a metaphoric you)are so concerned that the EI fund is being plundered then why are you not complaining about the fact that Harper now controls it and is doing the exact same thing. Not one single person here complaining about the EI fund has ever so much as admitted that Harper is doing it let alone condemned him. That indicates that they don't actually dislike the practice but rather dislike the fact the Liberals were doing it. Its perfectly OK if Harper does it right?

I’m not bitching about the “Liberals” plundering the EI fund because .. well .. the conservatives are doing it too. I tend to be a little less vocal when it’s the party I support doing the bungling. (well at least I’m honest about it ) Regardless of who’s dipping their paws into the fund though it should be stopped. If government of the day wants to use it for general revenues and people who are not eligible to collect it must still pay into it then it should be called what it is, a tax.

Noticed you were away for a few days Derb, good to see ya back.

Thanks. It got annoying having debug errors everytime I logged on. Still lots of bugs but I just missed this so much.

At least you are dealing with the fact that Harper is using the fund likewise.

I'd like you to think about this point though:

While its true that people seem to be paying into it that cannot collect (they can but with sever restrictions) then what about the fact that it comes directly off the income taxes you pay?

Somebody who pays an identical amount of income tax but no EI tax will still pay the same amount of tax but hi stax will be used only for gweneral revenue yet he is getting the same services.

In other words he is paying more actual income tax (because his isn't lowered through EI contributions) then any EI contribbutal paying the same rate.

Is that fair?

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

but hi stax will be used only for gweneral ?

Two words, "spell check buddy", Well that's actually 3 but what ever *shrugs shoulders*

"gweneral", That one's my favorite. I'm going to have to start calling you "Philosopher Fudd".

DerbyX DerbyX:

Somebody who pays an identical amount of income tax but no EI tax will still pay the same amount of tax but hi stax will be used only for gweneral revenue yet he is getting the same services.
?

Huh? I'm not really sure where you're going with this but it seems like your saying that EI is a general revenue because you pay the same amount of tax whether or not you pay into it and that it is originally part of general revenues and simply set aside for the use as employment issuance. This makes no sense, why call it a fund then? Why single it out on your pay stub? Why don’t they just include it in the taxes you pay? The term "fund" implies that the money is being set aside for a specific purpose not for use as general revenues out of which they will make a yearly budgeted amount available for employment insurance. Why? Because it's a way for the government to justify higher taxes. "Oh, EI isn't a tax, it's a rainy day fund". It's kind of like when your phone or gas company has a bunch of bunch of extra baloney charges on it with b.s. names to some how justify higher bills.

[hurley_108]

You want a response to this? Fine.

mtbr mtbr:

Its still more expensive to buy a house in many other parts of the country....where the economy sucks.

It's cheaper to buy a house in many other parts of the country, no matter what the economy there is doing. If the median income is lower by a lesser degree than house prices, then the people there are AHEAD, even though they make less because less of what they make is spent on the roof over their head.

$1:

You whine because everything is not "perfect" in Alberta.....suck it up pansy or hit the road.

You own a house and have a job,relatively new car?..not enough... you deserve more right?why?

I worked my ass off since I was in junior high school and I never qualified for a mortgage until I was 29.

You're 27, have you ever really had to look for a job? and not have a choice over which one you want?

Maybe a slow down that you keep wishing for will make you see it differently. careful what you wish for.

I'm not saying I deserve more. All I'm saying is that it sucks that ten plus years of housing market depression corrected in two years. All I'm saying is that I wish I could have gotten into things even one year earlier than I did. Am I not allowed to make the observation that for the same money one year earlier I could have bought a much nicer place?

Furthermore, yea, I agree that there are people in worse positions than I'm in. There are people in worse positions than you were in. The difference between you and me is I know it, you apparently don't. I care about them, you don't even know they exist. I'm on our condo board. The board owns a few units in the complex which we rent for extra income. These rents are extremely low, but we all voted to voluntarily restrict the increase to 10%, because we're not selfish fucks like I'm sure you would have been.

And take your "slowdown" talk and stick it where the sun don't shine. If you're barreling down the highway from Edmonton to Calgary at 200, you don't say, as you fly though Airdrie, "oh dear, if we hit the brakes now, we'll add another thirty seconds to our journey, so we'd better not do that." You hit the brakes because it's a miracle you haven't crashed yet, and if you don't you just might not make it.

You hit the brakes and you let the rest of the economy catch up at a reasonable pace. A slowdown doesn't mean a standstill. A slowdown doesn't mean going backwards. A slowdown means being able to keep up while allowing for a reasonable rate of growth.

[ziggy]

Hurley says

$1:

And take your "slowdown" talk and stick it where the sun don't shine. If you're barreling down the highway from Edmonton to Calgary at 200, you don't say, as you fly though Airdrie, "oh dear, if we hit the brakes now, we'll add another thirty seconds to our journey, so we'd better not do that." You hit the brakes because it's a miracle you haven't crashed yet, and if you don't you just might not make it.

You hit the brakes and you let the rest of the economy catch up at a reasonable pace. A slowdown doesn't mean a standstill. A slowdown doesn't mean going backwards. A slowdown means being able to keep up while allowing for a reasonable rate of growth.

And you propose to slow this runaway economy down how??????


Sorry but the energy industry doesnt play by those rules.
It's a province of opportunity,people come here to make money,not worry about the ROC's affairs.That's just the hard truth.

[ziggy]

Some of us Albertans who have been here long time would disagree.
Hurley says

$1:

I'm not saying I deserve more. All I'm saying is that it sucks that ten plus years of housing market depression corrected in two years.

2 years?
I know land we bought 30 years ago was only just worth listing a few years ago,is this what you mean by a correction?

Land that others thought was worthless.Yet we stayed and toughed it out even through the NEP years.

I dont see any correction except the people who invested in Alberta in it's pioneer boom days and stood through the tough times finally getting their due.
Sorry you have a problem with that.

[hurley_108]

ziggy ziggy:

Hurley says

$1:

And take your "slowdown" talk and stick it where the sun don't shine. If you're barreling down the highway from Edmonton to Calgary at 200, you don't say, as you fly though Airdrie, "oh dear, if we hit the brakes now, we'll add another thirty seconds to our journey, so we'd better not do that." You hit the brakes because it's a miracle you haven't crashed yet, and if you don't you just might not make it.

You hit the brakes and you let the rest of the economy catch up at a reasonable pace. A slowdown doesn't mean a standstill. A slowdown doesn't mean going backwards. A slowdown means being able to keep up while allowing for a reasonable rate of growth.

And you propose to slow this runaway economy down how??????


Sorry but the energy industry doesnt play by those rules.
It's a province of opportunity,people come here to make money,not worry about the ROC's affairs.That's just the hard truth.

You slow it down by turning down applications for expansion. By turning down some new projects. Or, if you don't have the ability to control that, you legislate yourself the ability to do that. Or at the very least you put the royalties at a level where you can keep up services to match. But even then, you don't want to fritter all that wealth away just keeping up, you want to save it for when the oil and gas runs out. I keep hearing that Alberta's only got about 30-50 years of conventional gas left, and that's been our major source of revenue for years. What do we do when it's gone?

You yourself use the term "runaway." As in out of control. We need to take control.

[mtbr]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

You want a response to this? Fine.

mtbr mtbr:

Its still more expensive to buy a house in many other parts of the country....where the economy sucks.

It's cheaper to buy a house in many other parts of the country, no matter what the economy there is doing. If the median income is lower by a lesser degree than house prices, then the people there are AHEAD, even though they make less because less of what they make is spent on the roof over their head.

$1:

You whine because everything is not "perfect" in Alberta.....suck it up pansy or hit the road.

You own a house and have a job,relatively new car?..not enough... you deserve more right?why?

I worked my ass off since I was in junior high school and I never qualified for a mortgage until I was 29.

You're 27, have you ever really had to look for a job? and not have a choice over which one you want?

Maybe a slow down that you keep wishing for will make you see it differently. careful what you wish for.

I'm not saying I deserve more. All I'm saying is that it sucks that ten plus years of housing market depression corrected in two years. All I'm saying is that I wish I could have gotten into things even one year earlier than I did. Am I not allowed to make the observation that for the same money one year earlier I could have bought a much nicer place?

Furthermore, yea, I agree that there are people in worse positions than I'm in. There are people in worse positions than you were in. The difference between you and me is I know it, you apparently don't. I care about them, you don't even know they exist. I'm on our condo board. The board owns a few units in the complex which we rent for extra income. These rents are extremely low, but we all voted to voluntarily restrict the increase to 10%, because we're not selfish fucks like I'm sure you would have been.

And take your "slowdown" talk and stick it where the sun don't shine. If you're barreling down the highway from Edmonton to Calgary at 200, you don't say, as you fly though Airdrie, "oh dear, if we hit the brakes now, we'll add another thirty seconds to our journey, so we'd better not do that." You hit the brakes because it's a miracle you haven't crashed yet, and if you don't you just might not make it.

You hit the brakes and you let the rest of the economy catch up at a reasonable pace. A slowdown doesn't mean a standstill. A slowdown doesn't mean going backwards. A slowdown means being able to keep up while allowing for a reasonable rate of growth.

I know that you know nothing you dipshit.


So did you ever have to look for a job?

It's the dipshits like you that would be in for an awakening, teenagers and clowns like yourself don't know what it's like to live during a slow
economy. Those 10 buck an hour jobs that go unfilled right know would be snapped up in a nanosecond .

Your union raises would quickly disappear.People from the oil patch would be competing for your job.

[ziggy]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

ziggy ziggy:

Hurley says

$1:

And take your "slowdown" talk and stick it where the sun don't shine. If you're barreling down the highway from Edmonton to Calgary at 200, you don't say, as you fly though Airdrie, "oh dear, if we hit the brakes now, we'll add another thirty seconds to our journey, so we'd better not do that." You hit the brakes because it's a miracle you haven't crashed yet, and if you don't you just might not make it.

You hit the brakes and you let the rest of the economy catch up at a reasonable pace. A slowdown doesn't mean a standstill. A slowdown doesn't mean going backwards. A slowdown means being able to keep up while allowing for a reasonable rate of growth.

And you propose to slow this runaway economy down how??????


Sorry but the energy industry doesnt play by those rules.
It's a province of opportunity,people come here to make money,not worry about the ROC's affairs.That's just the hard truth.

You slow it down by turning down applications for expansion. By turning down some new projects. Or, if you don't have the ability to control that, you legislate yourself the ability to do that. Or at the very least you put the royalties at a level where you can keep up services to match. But even then, you don't want to fritter all that wealth away just keeping up, you want to save it for when the oil and gas runs out. I keep hearing that Alberta's only got about 30-50 years of conventional gas left, and that's been our major source of revenue for years. What do we do when it's gone?

You yourself use the term "runaway." As in out of control. We need to take control.

They havent even scratched the surface as far as oil and gas go's.
Coalbed methane can be found everywhere and we just happen to have coal seams running all through western Canada,lots of them.

The market will adjust itself,you dont have workers you dont build that apartment complex then. We did create the heritage trust fund but I'm not sure what happened to it.
What Alberta needs is more processing facilities for gas,I think the last one built was the one I worked on 2 years ago south of Calgary.Then we need more pipelines south to our biggest customer.

[hurley_108]

ziggy ziggy:

Some of us Albertans who have been here long time would disagree.
Hurley says

$1:

I'm not saying I deserve more. All I'm saying is that it sucks that ten plus years of housing market depression corrected in two years.

2 years?
I know land we bought 30 years ago was only just worth listing a few years ago,is this what you mean by a correction?

Land that others thought was worthless.Yet we stayed and toughed it out even through the NEP years.

I dont see any correction except the people who invested in Alberta in it's pioneer boom days and stood through the tough times finally getting their due.
Sorry you have a problem with that.

Define "worth listing." Define "pioneer boom days." My parents bought their house 35 years ago. They can't believe how much they could sell it for today. And I'm not saying they dont' deserve fair market value, all I'm saying is that salaries and services haven't kept pace with housing and other inflationary pressures.

I don't have an issue with the 30-year trend. I have an issue with the 2-year trend, for myself and for everyone else trying to get by in today's boom.