[Ripcat]

[url=http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/docs/080108_afghanistan_en.pdf]SUBMISSION OF THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA
TO THE INDEPENDENT PANEL ON
CANADA’S FUTURE ROLE IN AFGHANISTAN[/url]

Looks like the panel took alot of this to heart.

[Scape]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Scape said "So what good is bailing out a leaky boat?" Good way of putting it.

"there are times when we have to count. There are times when it matters. We're not prepared to retreat under the U.S. missile shield and live in Fortress North America. We're prepared to be out there and we're prepared to pay the price, because that's what you expect of a country like Canada."
John Manley.

Better quote would be, "God helps those who help themselves." Ben Franklin

For all the chest thumping of we are in the brotherhood of NATO and we must live up to our obligations it is all for naught if there is no will for victory besides our own. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

Musharraf: Pakistan Isn't Hunting Osama

[sasquatch2]

ridenrain

$1:

No. This was an offhand, stupid remark by a weak, failing candidate who was playing small town politics on a global stage, and he got caught out.
He looks like a fool, his party looks like fools, and Canada looks like fools, because of him.

Pretty much!

$1:

Musharraf: Pakistan Isn't Hunting Osama

No and neither is anyone one else---he is yesterdays news.

Besides---think about it----how hard is it to find a 6'6" Arab on dialysis in the North-West frontier of Pakistan?

[sasquatch2]

dino_bobba_renno wrote:

$1:

DerbyX wrote:

$1:

How little you know. Dion is no more chasing vote sthen Harper is chasing votes from people like you who only really care about hearing Canadian soldiers killing brown people.

Ok just to start off Derb, that was an extremely unfair comment and I think you should consider retracting it. You’re better than that.

NAH! He isn't!

[ridenrain]

DerbyX DerbyX:

You obviously conceded all my other points so I'll just remind you that Manley's opinion on the Liberal position on Afghanistan is just as credible as say John Turners opinion about the CPC under Harper.

I conceded nothing to you. I've tried to argue with you before and you refute everything, argue symantics or insult me. You stick you're fingers in you're ears and sing liberal platitudes and slogans.
Convincing you of anything isn't worth my time or effort.

Let's please keep the personalities out of it and stay on topic.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You obviously conceded all my other points so I'll just remind you that Manley's opinion on the Liberal position on Afghanistan is just as credible as say John Turners opinion about the CPC under Harper.

I conceded nothing to you. I've tried to argue with you before and you refute everything, argue symantics or insult me. You stick you're fingers in you're ears and sing liberal platitudes and slogans.
Convincing you of anything isn't worth my time or effort.

Let's please keep the personalities out of it and stay on topic.

You make no points, post no logic and never ever say anything beyond baseless slurs against all Liberals. You are one of the worst political hacks and time and time again you have proven you are incapable of anything even resembling non-partisan discussion. At every single opportunity in virtually every thread you attack the Liberals regardless of whether its related or not.

Harper circumvents the seat distribution equalization process (itself a gross violation) and under the guise cheering Harper on your erroneously attacked the Liberals. Hell you didn't even admit it and simply maintained that your goal was simply to congradulate Harper. You do it so often that unless its a scathing 2 page assault it doesn't even register as a complaint in your eyes.

You went out of your way to heap as much blame as you couls on the Liberals through tenacious connection over the YVR incident forcing me to emberass you yet again.

You aren't interested in the least about the best course of action in Afghansitans because all you really want to do is score cheap political points and heap as much insults, blame, and political hackery as you can on every other politcal party.

You can't even admit that the Liberal plan to withdraw from front-line combat and assuming a support position (ie telling the Afghan gov't that we will give you all the support and training you want but you must do it for yourselves) is at the very least a perfectly viable and realistic option and not even in the same ballpark as cut and run.

You can't admit it because you can't admit the Liberals may be right though years down the road when everybody has had enough an they either force that option or leave entirely you will suddenly say "you supported that plan".

You haven't even made an attempt to debate the merits of any plan nor acknowledged the mistakes nor even acknowledged the guilt Pakistan has with regards to the whole venture simply because it was a Liberal who said it first. Had Mackay or Harper or their owner bush talked tough about Pakistan you would have been the first to cheer about how great it was to have leadership that wasn't affraid to say the things that needed to be said.

Instead you choose to drive a wedge between the 2 leading political parties in direct opposition to Manleys statement that any victory in Afghansitan will need the Libs and CPC on the same page.

All you do is simply push any Liberal who supports the mission further away as you fling insult after insults at them.

There is absolutely no attempt made by any of you warmonger cons for concensus because even the slightest deviation from your personal vision of Afghanistan is met with total derision, baseless insults, and blanket condemnation of all other politcal parties.

You did concede all my original points because in your heart you know I am right.

Afterall, its why your subconcious has you paying homage to my spoken word, immortalized in your signature as a testament to how wrong you are about the Liberals.

We forgive your transgressions against us. Vote for Dion and all will be forgiven.

[ridenrain]

You can dither and rant all you like but it was clear back on page-4 and it's still as clear as it is now.
You are wrong.
All you're talk about motives and meaning is as hopeless and misdirected as Dion talking to Pakistan.

DerbyX DerbyX:

At no time did you or anybody who voted for the CPC stand up and say "I support the Liberals and their decision".

And I said:

ridenrain ridenrain:

If this is the actual plan behind the Canadians in A-Stan, then Paul gets my Approval.

You need to worry less about painting me as a hack and more about getting you're own story straight.

[ridenrain]

While you're busy telling people what I really meant and what I think, here's another video for Dion's " What he really meant" machine:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bawNnKKEgzw&eurl=http://stevejanke.com/archives/252837.php?utm_medium=RSS[/youtube]

[sasquatch2]

I bet that video is offending the fence-post LIBRANOs.

The main reason they don't produce stuff like that about Harper is that Harpers lacks Dion's talent for providing good stuff.

Dion is disproving the politcal principle that any publicity is good publicity. He is the exception that proves the rule?

[Zipperfish]

ridenrain ridenrain:

You can dither and rant all you like but it was clear back on page-4 and it's still as clear as it is now.
You are wrong.
All you're talk about motives and meaning is as hopeless and misdirected as Dion talking to Pakistan.

DerbyX DerbyX:

At no time did you or anybody who voted for the CPC stand up and say "I support the Liberals and their decision".

And I said:

ridenrain ridenrain:

If this is the actual plan behind the Canadians in A-Stan, then Paul gets my Approval.

You need to worry less about painting me as a hack and more about getting you're own story straight.

I think you do just fine painting yourself as a hack wihtout any help from Derby at all.

[ridenrain]

I'll admit I'm playing the role of a party hack here but I've also shown on a number of occasions where and when I disagree with the CPC, which is much more than a number of my opposites have done.

When scandels become a "Triumph of Entrepeneurialship", you need to break out the shovels.

[Wullu]

I wonder who Musharraf might be refering to..........?

$1:

Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf lashed out Thursday at what he called Western "intellectual arrogance" toward his country.....

Full Story

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

You can dither and rant all you like but it was clear back on page-4 and it's still as clear as it is now.
You are wrong.
All you're talk about motives and meaning is as hopeless and misdirected as Dion talking to Pakistan.

DerbyX DerbyX:

At no time did you or anybody who voted for the CPC stand up and say "I support the Liberals and their decision".

And I said:

ridenrain ridenrain:

If this is the actual plan behind the Canadians in A-Stan, then Paul gets my Approval.

You need to worry less about painting me as a hack and more about getting you're own story straight.

(sigh) You just don't get it do you?

Note to self: Check for heavy metal and pesticide contamination in Surrey water supply and/or addiction rates to crack and PCP for possible explanation.

Here we go. You didn't support the Liberals. You didn't even say you supported the Liberals and you most certainly didn't say that about Chretien who deployed them in the first place. As I said before you support the deployment and thats it. It most certainly doesn't count as support as you attacked them at every turn for virtually everything even remotely related to Afghanistan and made damn certain to try and prevent them from earning any political points for "doing the right thing" with regards to Afghanistan.

You didn't. All you did was do exactly what I said, give approval for the actual deployment but nothing else. Its over and you are done.

BTW, just because I approve of Harper paying down the debt doesn't mean I support him or his gov't.

Now the rest of your rant is just coffee house filler crap designed to further cast aspersions on Dion for a political hack job of twisting his words to score cheap political points.

Now I will explain your partisan hackery in full detail because you just can't seem to grasp it.

It isn't that you (allegedly) point out that your don't agree with everything the CPC does, its that you don't hold them to the same standard you do the Liberals or anyone else..

In every case you have proven it. Whatever misdeed the Liberals did was proof of their corruption as you launched thread after thread calling for their disbandment. Along comes Harper who does exactly the same thing and all you can manage is "I don't like this". With scoldings like that I surprised you aren't saying all Harper needs is a good spanking to set him right.

Cue my evidence: Belinda crosses the floor and not only was she villified in the worst way but you considered it proof of Liberal corruption and they're willingness to do anything to saty in power. You stated your admiration for Harper for his stance on floor-crossers and said thats exactly why he was the leader Canada needed.

Apparently not. He flip-flopped almost instantly and an event that shook your moral outrage to the core simply elicited a "I don't like it" from you.

Hell all the pandering to QC was disgusting in your eyes and was often a point in your never-ending anti-Liberal rant. Along comes Harper and in the most blatant vote buying event ever cuts Charest a 2 billion dollar check so that they can both garner support.

You didn't even bother tsk-tsking that one. Ditto renegade MPs. Strange how renegade Liberal MPs were ousted under despicable circumstances yet nary a word from you when the CPC did it. When the Liberals did it you used it as proof of their infighting, corruption, and inability to lead yet along comes Harper and does exactly the same thing and you can't even bring yourself to condemn.

So much for not being a partisan hack.

Should I go on to mention the 25+ billion dollars wasted (that you hate). During the Liberal tenure it amounted to vote buying theft of tax-payer dollars yet when Harper does it (to a greater degree) you simply state "I don't like this and its got to stop". Yes, you did indeed disagree with Harper's use of that money (woohoo ) but again the point is entirely that you held the Liberals far far more accountable then Harper. Hell you even went and bitched that the list included loads of places from Ontario and Quebec. The fact that he was trying to buy votes in those provinces should have clued you in that he is simply doing what the Liberals did in order to try and win an election.

Gov't stealing? Hmmmmm, where have I heard that before. Oh yes. The IE fund. A great many uninformed people like to criticize the Liberals for "stealing from the EI fund". You included as I recall yet it seems to me that you haven't said one word about the verified fact that Harper has done exactly the same thing. Here I was thinking you were opposed to using the EI fund in that manner when the truth is you were only opposed to the Liberals using it.

This is to say nothing of the unbelievable double standard you guys have placed upon gov't visits to Afghanistan. Every time the Liberals (or NDP) visit you throw a tantrum about how it wastes the troops time and how it is nothing less then a crass political stunt by opportunistic MPs. Then you hail any CPC visit as a wonderful boost to morale as "they care enough to visit". During these visits you then attack the Liberals for not caring enough to visit.

Thats real fair. In other words every time they visit they are condemned. Every time they don't they are condemed. In short it doesn't matter what they do so it pretty much invalidates your opinion.

With reagrds to my not holding the Liberals accountable. Unfortunately that is not the case. take Adscam. I did hold the guilty people accountable, I just didn't agree that it was Chretien or Martin.

As for my use of personal attacks against you. You deserve it. Anybody who continually makes blanket attacks against entire groups of people and that includes the Liberals deserves it. I'd rather people made personal attacks rather then blanket staements because I don't think its right to say insult all jews as long as I don't specifically insult one of them.

Now most of what I have said you have already conceded. You know it. I know. The forum knows it.

The fact that you continually display my words and therefore my meaning pretty much confirms it. You are wrong in your belief about the Liberals. You just can't bring yourself to admit it openly.

Now you have manouvered yourself between a rock and a hardplace. Do you keep my quote as your signature and thus confirm my statement or do you change it and thus risk it being said you removed it because I goaded you into it.

Either way it seems you are my bitch.

[sasquatch2]

The previous post is not even passable sophistry.

Want some cheese with that whine?

[JoelCool7]

The Liberal Party is the Party that sent our Army to Afghanistan they're the Army that said they didn't agree with the mission they started and now the party that says we should invade an independent and soveirgn state.

To be honest the war hungry party that sent our troops into a terrorist raveged country via Air Canada with only some Jeeps and old C7 assualt rifles is the party I don't want to see running my country.

Let Hitler I mean Dion have his little fun as long as Harper is in control our country will be on the right course. No invading allies and sending troops in unarmed to fight terrorists!