[CharlesAnthony]

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Did we or did we not sign an agreement?

I did not sign any agreement. Did you? or Are you somebody's bitch?

Here is an idea: How about the muppets who signed the agreement pay it out of their own damn pockets if they are afraid of the boogey-man. .

[Freakinoldguy]

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Did we or did we not sign an agreement?

I did not sign any agreement. Did you? or Are you somebody's bitch?

Here is an idea: How about the muppets who signed the agreement pay it out of their own damn pockets if they are afraid of the boogey-man. .

So, you don't believe in duly elected Gov'ts having the right to sign treaties and agreements without your approval?

And given you don't want us keeping those agreements unless you pass an edict giving permission I'd suggest you let your MP, the PM and Liberal Gov't know that you've now taken over the affairs of state and no further action on these matters by them will be necessary.

[Thanos]

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

[Strutz]

Thanos Thanos:

I keep asking this and can't get a fucking answer from anyone - if Russia is harmless and misunderstood and our great fucking friend according to the Trumpers then why the hell do we need to double or triple our military spending at all? There is no other enemy out there whose actions would call for a boost in spending so if Russia isn't the reason to do so then who else are we re-arming ourselves against? China? Iran? North Korea? Venezuela? Who in the hell is the target for all this spending?

I've wondered the same and had an interesting discussion about this very thing today with a colleague and a customer. WTH is really going on? From which direction is the shit coming that's going to hit the fan?

[Freakinoldguy]

Thanos Thanos:

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

A fact which automatically exonerates our sins?

BTW the US is living up to it's NAFTA agreement and the reason I say this is because it's what's called a living document and has been changed numerous times since it came into being in 1994. So saying Trump isn't honouring it isn't exactly accurate.

$1:

7th Annual North American Regional Meeting

The Trilateral Commission Ottawa

November 21–23, 2008

The North American Free Trade Agreement: Time for a Change?
Jeffrey J. Schott
Peterson Institute for International Economics

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

1. NAFTA was “state of the art” when promulgated 15 years ago, but needs renovation
to take account of:

• Important changes in the world economy;

• Lessons learned and improvements made in subsequent trade negotiations.
2. NAFTA has generally met the commercial objectives set by the negotiators but not
the exaggerated promises of politicians in all three countries.

3. However, NAFTA’s critics are correct in arguing that governments have not
pursued domestic policies that:

• Enable firms and workers to take full advantage of the opportunities created
by the pact, and

• Help manage adjustment to the new competitive environment so that
political support for the pact can be sustained.

4. President-elect Obama’s statements about one million job losses related to NAFTA
are consistent with the high-end of published studies of gross job loss cumulated
over a decade. Compared to the large-scale churning in the US labor market—
where 17.5 million jobs each year are displaced and more than 18 million jobs
created—NAFTA accounts for less than 1 percent of annual job churn.

5. NAFTA is a living document and often has been changed to implement needed
reforms and/or clarifications of existing obligations. “Updating” NAFTA is both
necessary and desirable, and can be pursued in a manner that ensures that it
contributes to sustainable economic growth in all three countries.

6. The NAFTA partners face new economic and political challenges that threaten to
impede existing benefits from regional economic integration, particularly as
countries implement new measures to address border security, climate change
concerns, and energy security. These are areas where the NAFTA countries need to
work together more closely in the coming years.

7. NAFTA provisions on labor and the environment also should be updated to
incorporate the changes mandated by the Congress-Bush administration accord of
May 2007 and already included in the US-Peru trade pact.

8. Language matters. Canadian and Mexican officials are very sensitive to calls to
“reopen” NAFTA for fear that existing liberalization commitments would be
withdrawn. “Upgrading” or “retooling” better conveys the purpose of ensuring that
NAFTA helps each country meet the competitive challenges of the 21st century.

https://piie.com/publications/papers/20081218schott.pdf

So as you can see it's an agreement that's designed to be "upgraded or retooled" on a regular basis and just because you don't like or agree with the person doing the retooling doesn't mean he's breaking the agreement by wanting to renegotiate it.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

So let me ask you some questions: If Russia is 1/10th as dangerous as you make them out to be, why are you not on here demanding that Canada increase its defense spending? If Trump was going to sell Europe down the river to Russia like you claim, than why is he asking them to bolster their defenses? What kind of bizarro world logic is that?

[Freakinoldguy]

Strutz Strutz:

Thanos Thanos:

I keep asking this and can't get a fucking answer from anyone - if Russia is harmless and misunderstood and our great fucking friend according to the Trumpers then why the hell do we need to double or triple our military spending at all? There is no other enemy out there whose actions would call for a boost in spending so if Russia isn't the reason to do so then who else are we re-arming ourselves against? China? Iran? North Korea? Venezuela? Who in the hell is the target for all this spending?

I've wondered the same and had an interesting discussion about this very thing today with a colleague and a customer. WTH is really going on? From which direction is the shit coming that's going to hit the fan?

As Ms Freeland so succinctly put it:

"to rely solely on the U.S. security umbrella would make us a client state."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... e35245913/

Trump not withstanding, if we don't have a viable military we can't participate in the missions and agreements we signed on for and we sure as hell won't be able to get a seat at the table and influence the decisions with other countries when important world matters occur. In essence we become nothing more than a tributary state to the US which is a fact that most Canadians with the exception of people like Shockey would find repugnant.

We have world commitments and without a military we can't fulfill them and without fulfilling them we lose credibility and support for our foreign policies which means we become nothing more than a natural resource warehouse for the Americans.

[Thanos]

rickc rickc:

Thanos Thanos:

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

So let me ask you some questions: If Russia is 1/10th as dangerous as you make them out to be, why are you not on here demanding that Canada increase its defense spending? If Trump was going to sell Europe down the river to Russia like you claim, than why is he asking them to bolster their defenses? What kind of bizarro world logic is that?

Because right now at this stage the fight is a bloodless cyberwar. So what good will it do for Canada to double it's defense spending on conventional armaments in that kind of fight? Does the POS F-35 we got hoodwinked into supporting have some special missile hooked up to it that only destroys hackers computers or mass-deletes Russian bot accounts on Twitter and Facebook?

Here's one back at you - since the election Trump's been the biggest apologist in America for Russia since the 1930's. Everything that Putin does Trump makes an excuse for, and then he goes to bat for them with his nonsense about getting Russia re-admitted to the G-8 because them invading Ukraine and shooting down a Malaysian airliner was just a "mistake" or not a big deal or whatever. Then in this week's NATO meeting he goes on about Germany being "owned" by Russia just because they're building a gas pipeline from Russia to Europe. So which one is it in this case? Russia's merely a misunderstood innocent when it comes to killing people in Ukraine and hacking the US federal election? Or they're the worst villains for selling natural gas to Germany?

He pulled the exact same crap with China, making them the main target of his trade war but letting them still sell cellphones in the US by a Chinese company implicated in industrial espionage against the US tech sector. It would have "cost too many Chinese jobs" were basically his exact words, not to mention the Chinese would have pulled the licenses for Ivanka to sell her crap fashions in their country. You scream at me for some kind of imaginary inconsistency yet the asshole you proudly voted for is all over the map on a daily basis on everything he does. Is he doing this as part of an actual policy? Or is he doing it just because he's a chaos-loving sadist doing it to entertain his idiotic followers? Is this why you voted for him, because you love it when he screws over people and countries that he's decided to target because of some spastic whim he likes to indulge in?

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

rickc rickc:

Thanos Thanos:

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

So let me ask you some questions: If Russia is 1/10th as dangerous as you make them out to be, why are you not on here demanding that Canada increase its defense spending? If Trump was going to sell Europe down the river to Russia like you claim, than why is he asking them to bolster their defenses? What kind of bizarro world logic is that?

Because right now at this stage the fight is a bloodless cyberwar. So what good will it do for Canada to double it's defense spending on conventional armaments in that kind of fight? Does the POS F-35 we got hoodwinked into supporting have some special missile hooked up to it that only destroys hackers computers or mass-deletes Russian bot accounts from Twitter and Facebook?

Bloodless cyber war huh? Well you might want to tell that to the relatives of the thousands killed or to the millions displaced in the Ukraine. Russia had nothing to do with that right? They were to busy rigging elections in the U.S. I suppose. We used to have an active CKA member from the Ukraine. I wonder what happened to him? Cyber attack perhaps?

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

rickc rickc:

Thanos Thanos:

Trump's regime has no intention of honouring their NATO agreements either, or their NAFTA ones, or anything else the US has signed since World War 2. On the scale of not living up to a commitment Canada's sins are far less in severity than America's.

So let me ask you some questions: If Russia is 1/10th as dangerous as you make them out to be, why are you not on here demanding that Canada increase its defense spending? If Trump was going to sell Europe down the river to Russia like you claim, than why is he asking them to bolster their defenses? What kind of bizarro world logic is that?

Because right now at this stage the fight is a bloodless cyberwar. So what good will it do for Canada to double it's defense spending on conventional armaments in that kind of fight? Does the POS F-35 we got hoodwinked into supporting have some special missile hooked up to it that only destroys hackers computers or mass-deletes Russian bot accounts on Twitter and Facebook?

Here's one back at you - since the election Trump's been the biggest apologist in America for Russia since the 1930's. Everything that Putin does Trump makes an excuse for, and then he goes to bat for them with his nonsense about getting Russia re-admitted to the G-8 because them invading Ukraine and shooting down a Malaysian airliner was just a "mistake" or not a big deal or whatever. Then in this week's NATO meeting he goes on about Germany being "owned" by Russia just because they're building a gas pipeline from Russia to Europe. So which one is it in this case? Russia's merely a misunderstood innocent when it comes to killing people in Ukraine and hacking the US federal election? Or they're the worst villains for selling natural gas to Germany?

He pulled the exact same crap with China, making them the main target of his trade war but letting them still sell cellphones in the US by a Chinese company implicated in industrial espionage against the US tech sector. It would have "cost too many Chinese jobs" were basically his exact words, not to mention the Chinese would have pulled the licenses for Ivanka to sell her crap fashions in their country. You scream at me for some kind of imaginary inconsistency yet the asshole you proudly voted for is all over the map on a daily basis on everything he does. Is he doing this as part of an actual policy? Or is he doing it just because he's a chaos-loving sadist doing it to entertain his idiotic followers? Is this why you voted for him, because you love it when he screws over people and countries that he's decided to target because of some spastic whim he likes to indulge in?

You added quite a bit before I could respond. I do not have a speech to text app. I do it the old fashioned way of henpecking with two fingers. It takes me a while. So Russia downed a Malaysian airliner. We downed an Iranian one in the late 80's, so we are not blameless when it comes to that. It sucks, but it happens. Its probably a good idea for civilian airliners to stay out of war zones. I think its a shitty idea for Germany to be buying their energy from Russia. Did you not lose your job in the Canadian energy sector? Did your Province not go into a severe recession/depression when the cost of oil fell? Why can't Germany buy their energy from you? Both of you could have pushed a pipeline from Alberta to the east coast. They get a steady cheap energy supply from an ally, you get steady employment. I am going to go out on a limb an say that a lack of imagination and initiative on both of your parts is to blame. Its far easier to put all your eggs in basket. You totally depend on the U.S. to sell your energy and Germany totally depends on Russia to supply their energy. Your both foolish and lazy when it comes to the transfer of energy supplies. If there were awards given for shortsightedness when it comes to energy management, both of you should share the award. Canada has had forever and a day to build pipelines to the east and the west and expand their customer base. Its not that you can't, its that you won't. You cower before the First Nations, B.C. treehuggers/hypocrites, P.Q. separatists always wanting a "special deal", and Alberta haters and elitists snobs in Ontario. You never had a strong leader that could push the pipelines through and make it happen. If you actually get a pipeline built to a Canadian port, you should personally thank President Trump. There is your strong leader that actually got you off of your asses and got something done. He will be more responsible than any Canadian leader that you have ever had when it comes to bringing Canadian oil to foreign markets, and thats the truth. Oh its true, its damn true.

I have seen the U.S. raise the tariffs on China lately, so I do not know what you are talking about when it comes to China. The U.S. is just getting started with China. I did not proudly vote for Trump. I picked the lesser of two evils. I originally wanted Ted Cruz to win. I stated that on this forum, you can look it up. I think that he is a very smart man, and would have made an excellent President. I still do. I remember when you thought that he would win the nomination and you were making him out to be the anti-Christ, kind of like you now do for Trump. When it came time to vote in the primary, I voted for Rubio. I also stated that on this forum back then, its public record. Cruz had come under fire for some misleading ads/emails about people dropping out of the race. He was taking heat from FOX NEWS about being untruthful. I figured that without the support of FOX NEWS Cruz could not win. I liked the fact that Rubio's parents were immigrants who actually worked as a bartender and a maid in Las Vegas casinos. He did not come from old money, and he could unite the party. My candidate did not win the nomination. I picked the lesser of two evils in the general election, and I do not regret it for one minute. Nor do I apologize for it either. I do not blindly follow Trump around kissing his ass. When he is wrong I will say he is wrong. I stated on this forum that I disagree with his tariffs on Canada. I said we needed a united front against China, and that pissing off our allies is not the way to get it done. Anyone can check that out as well. That said when it comes to some deadbeats and freeloaders in NATO not paying their share, he is dead on. I state that here and now for all to see.

[Tricks]

rickc rickc:

Bloodless cyber war huh? Well you might want to tell that to the relatives of the thousands killed or to the millions displaced in the Ukraine. Russia had nothing to do with that right? They were to busy rigging elections in the U.S. I suppose. We used to have an active CKA member from the Ukraine. I wonder what happened to him? Cyber attack perhaps?

Russia has been conducting cyber attacks on the Ukraine for almost a decade. They've knocked out power several times and have even taken down the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council servers. Cyber attacks also spiked heavily during the annexation of Crimea. So yes the cyber war is very real, and is happening constantly. I just wouldn't say it's bloodless.

[Tricks]

rickc rickc:

This link states that not only is Canada NEAR the bottom of spending in NATO members period, but they are AT the bottom when it comes to G7 members. Those numbers should embarrass you. They should but they don't. That fact is evident. All one has to do is look at all the hand wringing, explaining away, bitching about Trump, etc., etc. on this forum to see that Canada has no plans to ever meet the spending requirements. You never had, you never will.

I think you'd find many members who would happily be at the 2% level. I certainly would be. That's not what the issue is here. The issue stems from an asshat insulting out country, threatening economic hardship on it and it's people, then turning around and demanding we pay more. That's not how that works. You know who punches people then asks for money? School yard bullies. And school yard bullies need to be stood up to.

[DrCaleb]

rickc rickc:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

rickc rickc:

If you say you are going to do something, than do it. You made the commitment to NATO, not the U.S. You agreed to it long before anyone was talking about Trump, so don't use him as an excuse to weasel out of your commitment.

You'll also notice the 2014 agreement was to increase spending to 2% over 10 years.

It's only been 4.

When someone sets time limits they usually have the lowest common denominator in mind. Kind of like when states give school districts so much time to get their students to meet minimum passing scores on mandated tests. Some schools could pass on day one with no additional prep whatsoever. Some schools need to almost stop teaching their actual curriculum, and spend all their time preparing their students for the exams. Which school would you rather have your children attend? When NATO set the time limit to meet the spending requirements they were thinking about some of the newer, poorer members. You know, former Warsaw Pact members where the quality of life is a lot worse off than you experience. We kind of expect original NATO members and G7 members to lead from the front, not the rear.

https://www.opencanada.org/features/is- ... t-in-nato/

This link states that not only is Canada NEAR the bottom of spending in NATO members period, but they are AT the bottom when it comes to G7 members. Those numbers should embarrass you. They should but they don't. That fact is evident. All one has to do is look at all the hand wringing, explaining away, bitching about Trump, etc., etc. on this forum to see that Canada has no plans to ever meet the spending requirements. You never had, you never will.

Why should I be embarrassed? Given our low GDP spending, our soldiers still manage to do some great work in Iraq, Afghanistan, Latvia, Egypt, Solomon Islands, Democratic Republic of the Congo and many others.

Could our forces use better kit? Yes, and I write it in pretty much every military thread we have. Don't confuse lack of resources with lack of professionalism.

And don't confuse the lack of respect for your President with any reflection on your country or people. I disliked him long before he was El Presedente. All he's doing right now is desecrating an office I once respected, one tweet at a time.

[llama66]

Tricks Tricks:

rickc rickc:

This link states that not only is Canada NEAR the bottom of spending in NATO members period, but they are AT the bottom when it comes to G7 members. Those numbers should embarrass you. They should but they don't. That fact is evident. All one has to do is look at all the hand wringing, explaining away, bitching about Trump, etc., etc. on this forum to see that Canada has no plans to ever meet the spending requirements. You never had, you never will.

I think you'd find many members who would happily be at the 2% level. I certainly would be. That's not what the issue is here. The issue stems from an asshat insulting out country, threatening economic hardship on it and it's people, then turning around and demanding we pay more. That's not how that works. You know who punches people then asks for money? School yard bullies. And school yard bullies need to be stood up to.

We'd a military to stand up to this particular school yard bully.

[CharlesAnthony]

Need a new sugar daddy.

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

Vbeacher Vbeacher:

Did we or did we not sign an agreement?

I did not sign any agreement. Did you? or Are you somebody's bitch?

Here is an idea: How about the muppets who signed the agreement pay it out of their own damn pockets if they are afraid of the boogey-man. .

So, you don't believe in duly elected Gov'ts having the right to sign treaties and agreements without your approval?

What I BELIEVE is irrelevent. What I KNOW is relevent.
I KNOW that I did not sign any agreement. I BET $100 that neither did you signed any agreement.

So, who is your daddy, bitch? Trump?