[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Simply not true. Every time I go to one there is a line up. People in small businesses are shipping and large businesses are shipping. The products have shifted to parcels from mail but there is still a significant amount of mail being sent too. The post office is a growing industry because they already have the infrastructure in every location in the country to service it all.

Who are you trying to kid?

Over the last 10 years, the amount of letter mail has fallen by billions while parcel service sees single digit percentage increases.

Despite that, this incompetant management group manages to turn out a profit and there will be even more profit when door-to-door is gone away.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

They should start with the postal banking because many rural people who have to drive lengthy periods to visit a 'big bank' would use the postal banks. The corporation won't do it though - they aren't really interested in forward thought. Their philosophy is "just keep everything like it is and keep taking our big salaries & bonuses".

Yea, while banks all over Canada are closing locations, you and the union think it's a good idea to staff thousands of locations around the Country? Good luck with that.

[bootlegga]

rickc rickc:

A couple of thoughts on this thread. The post office is a dying industry. They are artificially being kept alive. I can't remember the last time I used one. Every 10 years I visit one to pick up a passport application. You have to blow off half a days work to accomplish even that. Industries come and go. Its a fact of life. The cargo container killed the longshoreman. The truck and plane killed the railroad. The inkjet killed the printing industry. So it goes.

We have grown to have contempt for people who have defined benefit pensions. I have been guilty of it as well. The truth of the matter is the death of the defined benefit pension has been one of the worst things to happen to workers in North America. What was wrong with having a certain amount of stability in the workplace and retirement? People gave their lives for the company. They came in on their days off, worked overtime, moved to other cities as needed. The companies prospered, and they had loyal employees as a result. People cared about their company. They had pride in their jobs. They willingly gave up thier lives for some job stability and a promise of retirement. Who has benefitted from the death of the defined benefit pension, and the rise of the 401k? Stockbrokers mainly. They charge commissions for handling the money in your retirement accounts. The invention of the 401k was a boon for the financial industry. Companies prospered. They don't owe you jack shit for all the time you spent building their business. You don't even get a golden watch any more. Retirement after 30 years at a company used to be a big deal. It would get a write up in the paper. They would hire a hall for a party. Now security escorts you to your car to make sure you aren't stealing anything. Most people are not equipped to handle their retirement account. They know nothing about the markets. Even people who know what they are doing can lose thousands when there is a sudden downturn in the markets. Better hope you are not near retirement when that happens. Companies have contempt for their employees, and I don't give a fuck about my employer. If I seen the building on fire after I clocked out, I would just keep on walking. Fuck em. Thats the mentality that most of us have in corporate America these days. I'm a number on an accounting sheet, and they are a paycheck and nothing else. We should not be angry at people who have defined benefit retirement plans, we should be demanding their return to the workplace.

We can debate what role unions had in the post war boom, but I do not think that there is any debate that the decline of unions in North America has led to a decline in the standard of living. We do not live as well as we used to. When I was a kid my dads job payed enough money for my mother to be a stay at home mom, (after they divorced she had to take a job at night, and me and my sister became latch key kids). Life was better when one parent worked. There was more free time, less stress, we ate better and we ate together. Parents actually raised their own kids. People knew their neighbors. Kids played outside, they rode their bikes to school. Unions allowed one parent to bring home enough money to support a family. Who has that these days? You had better be a Dr. or lawyer to be a one income family these days. We all work, different shifts sometimes. We are always tired. We spend hours a day commuting to our jobs chasing a buck. Strangers raise our kids. We order out for dinner. We argue over who is going to stop and pick up dinner. We spend our days off work doing the chores that did not get done during the work week because we are to tired. Just shopping at Walmart on your day off sucks the life out of you. The people in the unions had good health and dental benefits for free. Now we get crappy insurance that no one wants to take, high deductibles, and higher co payments. Corporate pfofits keep going up. Workers standards of living are going down.

If you think that laws have replaced the need for unions, you might be surprised at how little rights you actually have. I was working a job in Mass. They wanted me to work 12 hour days six days a week. I was doing it because I needed the money. One day I was in an accident on the highway that totaled my car on the way to work. The next day the boss was telling me how I owed the company 12 hours labor, and I was going to have to make it up somehow. Now this was Mass. The peoples republic of Mass. Home of the Kennedy's. I called the labor board and they told me that the company could require me to work as many hours as they wish. The only laws were overtime pay at 1.5 over 40 hours, and one day off a week. Sunday if it was a manufacturing facility. Thats it. No laws saying you get paid holidays or overtime for working holidays. No laws against the employer changing your shift at will, or calling you in on your day off. No laws concerning paid vacations or sick days. None, absolutely zero. If its that fucked up in a bastion of left wing ideology like Mass, it can only get worse from there. I got fired from that shitty job for refusing to make up my time that I supposedly owed the company. So don't tell me the law has your back on the job because they don't. If you are not in a union you have next to no rights on the job. They can fire you because they do not like your haircut. They can cut your hours and pay whenever they please. You have no say in the cost of your benefits, or the employers contributions to your retirement plan. They don't have to give you a dime. They don't have to recognize seniority. The bosses nephew can take your job any time they want to give it to him. I say America works best when they say "Union Yes". The CEO's in the boardroom all have contracts spelling out their pay and benefits. Why shouldn't the workers have a contract as well?

I can't speak for the US, but there are lots of people who are still single income families. IIRC, about 1 in 6 families in Canada are and were the target for Harper's income-splitting bill a couple years ago. You're correct though that you need to be in a profession to do so AND prosper - all of the single income families I know have an engineer or lawyer as the bread winner.

Defined benefit pensions are wonderful, however they are massively expensive and are a liability these days, because as people live longer, the benefits far exceed any premiums the employer would have paid during their career. That's why everyone is moving to defined contribution plans - you get out of it what you paid into it, which I think is totally fair.

I agree also agree that 401ks and RRSPs were a boon to the financial industry, but everyone should plan their retirement just as they plan every other aspect of their lives, from education to home buying to career-building. If you don't know, then educate yourself by reading a book or two (The Wealthy Barber is an excellent starter book for laypeople) or even try talking to a financial planner or someone at the bank. Hell, nowadays you can use Google and learn about it.

Again, I can't speak for the US, but everywhere I have worked in Canada, when someone retires after 30 years, they throw a big party, get the retiree a small gift and generally send them off in style. The difference is that the company doesn't foot the entire bill these days.

I agree that being a two income family is tough, but it can be done with a little planning. You don't have to eat out every day, you just need to plan ahead for meals. Almost all of our meals are cooked at home. Sometimes it's a mix of pre-made food (frozen pizza or lasagna) and fresh (a salad maybe), sometimes it's all fresh, it just depends on the day and when we get home. Our kids go to day care, but only for the absolute minimum each day. Maybe you do what we do and limit children's activities (sports, dance, art, etc) to weekends so that you have time to sit down and eat dinner each day, then take the kids to the playground for a bit and then relax for a bit before it's time for bed.

It can be done, it just needs to be a priority, instead of prioritizing things like watching the latest episode of Game of Thrones or playing Call of Duty or drinking a box of wine.

Finally, the labour laws in the US are seriously screwed up. How is it that there is no paid maternity/paternity leave? How is it that most people are scared to take more than a few days of their alloted vacation? There are so few protections in the US that I'd say that the labour laws, which peaked there in the 50s/60s, have begun to slowly weaken and regress towards the laws they had earlier in the 20th century (next to none at all). Our labour laws in Canada may not be perfect, but they are far better on many fronts than in the US - and on that front, I feel for you.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Finally, the labour laws in the US are seriously screwed up. How is it that there is no paid maternity/paternity leave? How is it that most people are scared to take more than a few days of their alloted vacation? There are so few protections in the US that I'd say that the labour laws, which peaked there in the 50s/60s, have begun to slowly weaken and regress towards the laws they had earlier in the 20th century (next to none at all). Our labour laws in Canada may not be perfect, but they are far better on many fronts than in the US - and on that front, I feel for you.

For all of the people in the US and Canada that love to champion the accomplishments of unions, how can this be explained?

So few protections, lack of maternity leave, etc.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Simply not true. Every time I go to one there is a line up. People in small businesses are shipping and large businesses are shipping. The products have shifted to parcels from mail but there is still a significant amount of mail being sent too. The post office is a growing industry because they already have the infrastructure in every location in the country to service it all.

Who are you trying to kid?

Over the last 10 years, the amount of letter mail has fallen by billions while parcel service sees single digit percentage increases.

Despite that, this incompetant management group manages to turn out a profit and there will be even more profit when door-to-door is gone away.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

They should start with the postal banking because many rural people who have to drive lengthy periods to visit a 'big bank' would use the postal banks. The corporation won't do it though - they aren't really interested in forward thought. Their philosophy is "just keep everything like it is and keep taking our big salaries & bonuses".

Yea, while banks all over Canada are closing locations, you and the union think it's a good idea to staff thousands of locations around the Country? Good luck with that.

You state so many incorrect items that I can't address them all - even if I did, you would go on believing that you are right.

You are wrong. You are wrong in ways that you should know and you are wrong in ways that you couldn't know unless you had inside information (that much can be forgiven) but you are wrong in ways that you make things up too. That's hilarious and an embarrassment.

[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

You state so many incorrect items that I can't address them all - even if I did, you would go on believing that you are right.

You are wrong. You are wrong in ways that you should know and you are wrong in ways that you couldn't know unless you had inside information (that much can be forgiven) but you are wrong in ways that you make things up too. That's hilarious and an embarrassment.

I am right, I don't need to beleive otherwise.

Overall mail volume from just 2014 to 2015 was down, 2.5%.

Lettermail was down 5.2%, transactional mail down around ~6.5%.

In the last 4 years alone, volume has dropped by 1.2 billion pieces. Mail delivery is down 38.7% per address since 2007 while total number of addresses increased by 1.5 million.

Directly from Canada Post:
https://www.canadapost.ca/assets/pdf/ab ... iew_en.pdf

Shut the fuck up.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I am right, I don't need to beleive otherwise.

Overall mail volume from just 2014 to 2015 was down, 2.5%.

Lettermail was down 5.2%, transactional mail down around ~6.5%.

In the last 4 years alone, volume has dropped by 1.2 billion pieces. Mail delivery is down 38.7% per address since 2007 while total number of addresses increased by 1.5 million.

Directly from Canada Post:
https://www.canadapost.ca/assets/pdf/ab ... iew_en.pdf

Yes, you know nothing about how they count the mail. Notice it is from Canada Post...the ones who are benefiting from the publicity of dropping mail volumes? No conflict of interest there.


What about those "single digit" parcel gains?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Shut the fuck up.

Yeah...tell me to my face.


You know, it's hard to win an argument with me because I am smart.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to win an argument with you because you are STUPID.

[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Yes, you know nothing about how they count the mail. Notice it is from Canada Post...the ones who are benefiting from the publicity of dropping mail volumes? No conflict of interest there.

Yea, all a big conspiracy to screw over the postal worker, right?

Get a grip.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

What about those "single digit" parcel gains?

Find someone who can "dumb down" the report for you. Maybe bigger letters with a slow reader may help. But then again, the report is entirely false because Canada Post put it out, right?

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Yeah...tell me to my face.

You know, it's hard to win an argument with me because I am smart.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to win an argument with you because you are STUPID.

You've told me my facts are wrong. I've provided actual numbers to prove you're an idiot (which we already knew, by the way). You're claiming that Canada Post purposely sabotages their Annual Report because they gain from lying about decreasing lettermail volume.

Put up some actual numbers to show that Canada Post is fudging the numbers or show us actual evidence that Canada Post counts differently and we'll have a conversation. Your opinion, because you were once a postie and couldn't cut it, doesn't count as fact.

Until then, you can continue to shut the fuck up.

[smorgdonkey]

Ok. Here is some inside information for you. Canada Post's method of counting mail consists of this: the only mail counted is first class mail delivered to the door. So, the mail going to super boxes is not counted. That's right - all of the mail in all of those super boxes across the country is NOT COUNTED. Myself and every other postal worker at the time thought it was ridiculous but they make the rules and count the mail.

So, a new subdivision with 500 houses goes in and they all get super boxes. NONE of that mail is counted. NONE. Now remember, last year a lot of houses which had delivery to the door got new boxes put on the street. That mail is no longer to the door so it no longer gets counted.

...and they publicize a huge drop in letter mail. Coincidence? Not at all. They can cook the books any way they want. The CEO has no fear for his job...just search Paul Dewar interviewing Deepak Chopra. The guy dances around every question he is asked.

ontheice, I feel sorry for you. I wondered how a person could be as stupid as you portray yourself here but then I thought of how you said "at 23 I have surpassed..."

If you are only 23, that explains a lot. When you grow up a bit more...maybe in ten years or so, hopefully you will have forgotten by then how stupid you are now.

As for getting someone to interpret the report for me: HINT..."parcels growth" and "domestic parcels growth" are both parcels. You have to ADD them together. That's double digit growth for both years covered in the report. By the way, you don't even have to add 2015's two numbers together as it is already into double digits.

Best of luck under 70.

[OnTheIce]

As previously mentioned, your opinion doesn't count.

I do love how you discount the report but then try to use it to back up your point.

Nice try. Move on, jackass.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

As previously mentioned, your opinion doesn't count.

I do love how you discount the report but then try to use it to back up your point.

Nice try. Move on, jackass.

That's it...quit while you are way behind.

You aren't paying attention.

Your poor parents.

[Caelon]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

As for getting someone to interpret the report for me: HINT..."parcels growth" and "domestic parcels growth" are both parcels. You have to ADD them together. That's double digit growth for both years covered in the report.

Best of luck under 70.

Sorry math does not work that way. If you have 5% growth on 1000 units and 5% growth on another 1000 units, that is still only 5% growth on 2000 units. Not 10%.

[smorgdonkey]

Caelon Caelon:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

As for getting someone to interpret the report for me: HINT..."parcels growth" and "domestic parcels growth" are both parcels. You have to ADD them together. That's double digit growth for both years covered in the report.

Best of luck under 70.

Sorry math does not work that way. If you have 5% growth on 1000 units and 5% growth on another 1000 units, that is still only 5% growth on 2000 units. Not 10%.

True. Since it is treated as a separate sector for their numbers and the numbers are not stated specifically it is hard to quantify. But yes, the main point is that I shouldn't have said that they should be added together...I was really just trying to avoid getting into the concept of growth in terms of the rate year by year and how it is compounded by previous year's growth.

I didn't think that I could get that through to him so I f'd it by trying to cover it from a different angle.

That said, the growth in parcels is huge because year over year the percentage gets larger and it is percentage of a larger number each year. In letter mail, aside from the corporation not counting what isn't going to a door, the stated drops year over year is a percentage of a smaller number each year.

The easiest way to describe that is for growth, 10% of 1000 is 100. The next year, 10% growth in the sector would be 110.

For letter mail (aside from their shady exclusions) if there is a 10% drop from 1000 then it is a decrease of 100 but the next year a drop of 10% in the sector is only 90.

So multiple years of growth in the parcel sector is huge since the numbers are something like 6%, 6.9%, 9.2% followed by 13.5%.

[Thanos]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

ontheice, I feel sorry for you. I wondered how a person could be as stupid as you portray yourself here but then I thought of how you said "at 23 I have surpassed..."

If you are only 23, that explains a lot. When you grow up a bit more...maybe in ten years or so, hopefully you will have forgotten by then how stupid you are now.

Twenty three? I thought he was like fifty seven or something, divorced twice, bitter & mean as hell, and relieves his internal pain by (a) bragging about his great stock portfolio at anyone who just isn't as "awesome" as he is, and (b) shrieking like a fucking lunatic at the 13-year old kids unfortunate enough to have him as their hockey coach. "If you don't have the fucking guts to hack with your stick at an opponents exposed throat or shin-bone then you're off my fucking team, Gavin! I only want winners, not PUSSIES!".

Or at least that's the impression I got from it all.

[uwish]

bootlegga bootlegga:

rickc rickc:

A couple of thoughts on this thread. The post office is a dying industry. They are artificially being kept alive. I can't remember the last time I used one. Every 10 years I visit one to pick up a passport application. You have to blow off half a days work to accomplish even that. Industries come and go. Its a fact of life. The cargo container killed the longshoreman. The truck and plane killed the railroad. The inkjet killed the printing industry. So it goes.

We have grown to have contempt for people who have defined benefit pensions. I have been guilty of it as well. The truth of the matter is the death of the defined benefit pension has been one of the worst things to happen to workers in North America. What was wrong with having a certain amount of stability in the workplace and retirement? People gave their lives for the company. They came in on their days off, worked overtime, moved to other cities as needed. The companies prospered, and they had loyal employees as a result. People cared about their company. They had pride in their jobs. They willingly gave up thier lives for some job stability and a promise of retirement. Who has benefitted from the death of the defined benefit pension, and the rise of the 401k? Stockbrokers mainly. They charge commissions for handling the money in your retirement accounts. The invention of the 401k was a boon for the financial industry. Companies prospered. They don't owe you jack shit for all the time you spent building their business. You don't even get a golden watch any more. Retirement after 30 years at a company used to be a big deal. It would get a write up in the paper. They would hire a hall for a party. Now security escorts you to your car to make sure you aren't stealing anything. Most people are not equipped to handle their retirement account. They know nothing about the markets. Even people who know what they are doing can lose thousands when there is a sudden downturn in the markets. Better hope you are not near retirement when that happens. Companies have contempt for their employees, and I don't give a fuck about my employer. If I seen the building on fire after I clocked out, I would just keep on walking. Fuck em. Thats the mentality that most of us have in corporate America these days. I'm a number on an accounting sheet, and they are a paycheck and nothing else. We should not be angry at people who have defined benefit retirement plans, we should be demanding their return to the workplace.

We can debate what role unions had in the post war boom, but I do not think that there is any debate that the decline of unions in North America has led to a decline in the standard of living. We do not live as well as we used to. When I was a kid my dads job payed enough money for my mother to be a stay at home mom, (after they divorced she had to take a job at night, and me and my sister became latch key kids). Life was better when one parent worked. There was more free time, less stress, we ate better and we ate together. Parents actually raised their own kids. People knew their neighbors. Kids played outside, they rode their bikes to school. Unions allowed one parent to bring home enough money to support a family. Who has that these days? You had better be a Dr. or lawyer to be a one income family these days. We all work, different shifts sometimes. We are always tired. We spend hours a day commuting to our jobs chasing a buck. Strangers raise our kids. We order out for dinner. We argue over who is going to stop and pick up dinner. We spend our days off work doing the chores that did not get done during the work week because we are to tired. Just shopping at Walmart on your day off sucks the life out of you. The people in the unions had good health and dental benefits for free. Now we get crappy insurance that no one wants to take, high deductibles, and higher co payments. Corporate pfofits keep going up. Workers standards of living are going down.

If you think that laws have replaced the need for unions, you might be surprised at how little rights you actually have. I was working a job in Mass. They wanted me to work 12 hour days six days a week. I was doing it because I needed the money. One day I was in an accident on the highway that totaled my car on the way to work. The next day the boss was telling me how I owed the company 12 hours labor, and I was going to have to make it up somehow. Now this was Mass. The peoples republic of Mass. Home of the Kennedy's. I called the labor board and they told me that the company could require me to work as many hours as they wish. The only laws were overtime pay at 1.5 over 40 hours, and one day off a week. Sunday if it was a manufacturing facility. Thats it. No laws saying you get paid holidays or overtime for working holidays. No laws against the employer changing your shift at will, or calling you in on your day off. No laws concerning paid vacations or sick days. None, absolutely zero. If its that fucked up in a bastion of left wing ideology like Mass, it can only get worse from there. I got fired from that shitty job for refusing to make up my time that I supposedly owed the company. So don't tell me the law has your back on the job because they don't. If you are not in a union you have next to no rights on the job. They can fire you because they do not like your haircut. They can cut your hours and pay whenever they please. You have no say in the cost of your benefits, or the employers contributions to your retirement plan. They don't have to give you a dime. They don't have to recognize seniority. The bosses nephew can take your job any time they want to give it to him. I say America works best when they say "Union Yes". The CEO's in the boardroom all have contracts spelling out their pay and benefits. Why shouldn't the workers have a contract as well?

I can't speak for the US, but there are lots of people who are still single income families. IIRC, about 1 in 6 families in Canada are and were the target for Harper's income-splitting bill a couple years ago. You're correct though that you need to be in a profession to do so AND prosper - all of the single income families I know have an engineer or lawyer as the bread winner.

Defined benefit pensions are wonderful, however they are massively expensive and are a liability these days, because as people live longer, the benefits far exceed any premiums the employer would have paid during their career. That's why everyone is moving to defined contribution plans - you get out of it what you paid into it, which I think is totally fair.

I agree also agree that 401ks and RRSPs were a boon to the financial industry, but everyone should plan their retirement just as they plan every other aspect of their lives, from education to home buying to career-building. If you don't know, then educate yourself by reading a book or two (The Wealthy Barber is an excellent starter book for laypeople) or even try talking to a financial planner or someone at the bank. Hell, nowadays you can use Google and learn about it.

Again, I can't speak for the US, but everywhere I have worked in Canada, when someone retires after 30 years, they throw a big party, get the retiree a small gift and generally send them off in style. The difference is that the company doesn't foot the entire bill these days.

I agree that being a two income family is tough, but it can be done with a little planning. You don't have to eat out every day, you just need to plan ahead for meals. Almost all of our meals are cooked at home. Sometimes it's a mix of pre-made food (frozen pizza or lasagna) and fresh (a salad maybe), sometimes it's all fresh, it just depends on the day and when we get home. Our kids go to day care, but only for the absolute minimum each day. Maybe you do what we do and limit children's activities (sports, dance, art, etc) to weekends so that you have time to sit down and eat dinner each day, then take the kids to the playground for a bit and then relax for a bit before it's time for bed.

It can be done, it just needs to be a priority, instead of prioritizing things like watching the latest episode of Game of Thrones or playing Call of Duty or drinking a box of wine.

Finally, the labour laws in the US are seriously screwed up. How is it that there is no paid maternity/paternity leave? How is it that most people are scared to take more than a few days of their alloted vacation? There are so few protections in the US that I'd say that the labour laws, which peaked there in the 50s/60s, have begun to slowly weaken and regress towards the laws they had earlier in the 20th century (next to none at all). Our labour laws in Canada may not be perfect, but they are far better on many fronts than in the US - and on that front, I feel for you.

THIS! bingo we have a winner!

[OnTheIce]

Thanos Thanos:

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

ontheice, I feel sorry for you. I wondered how a person could be as stupid as you portray yourself here but then I thought of how you said "at 23 I have surpassed..."

If you are only 23, that explains a lot. When you grow up a bit more...maybe in ten years or so, hopefully you will have forgotten by then how stupid you are now.

Twenty three? I thought he was like fifty seven or something, divorced twice, bitter & mean as hell, and relieves his internal pain by (a) bragging about his great stock portfolio at anyone who just isn't as "awesome" as he is, and (b) shrieking like a fucking lunatic at the 13-year old kids unfortunate enough to have him as their hockey coach. "If you don't have the fucking guts to hack with your stick at an opponents exposed throat or shin-bone then you're off my fucking team, Gavin! I only want winners, not PUSSIES!".

Or at least that's the impression I got from it all.

Coming from the guy that labeled me as someone that just looks to picks fights and said he wouldn't talk to me again (huge loss, btw) and then jumps into a post just to throw around some insults?

Get back to your own personal pity party. You're far better at that.