[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Googling it only reveals a bunch of creationist christian websites, which pretty much proves it's bunk.

And I don't think a "flash freeze" is the least complex explanation for a well-preserved artifact. Not by a long shot. Lots of ancient artifacts and remains are found perfectly preserved for various reasons.

I personally don't give a rip that some moron Creationists are hijacking something for their ignorant agenda. That doesn't diminish to me the evidence that these critters were most likely flash frozen.

I don't believe it is physically possible. Perhaps the mammoth was chewing his food on top of an active volcano when he was suddenly launched into outer space by a massive eruption, flash froze as soon as he left the atmosphere, and then fell back to earth. Thst sounds more plausible.

Or...maybe it was just a pile of leftover Captain Highliner fishsticks, those things are flash-frozen and they look and smell like a prehistoric mammoth thats been buried for thousands of years with half-chewed cud in its mouth. Ive made that honest mistake before.

[Jabberwalker]

Maybe it was buried in the permafrost by humans ... stone age refrigeration.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Googling it only reveals a bunch of creationist christian websites, which pretty much proves it's bunk.

And I don't think a "flash freeze" is the least complex explanation for a well-preserved artifact. Not by a long shot. Lots of ancient artifacts and remains are found perfectly preserved for various reasons.

I personally don't give a rip that some moron Creationists are hijacking something for their ignorant agenda. That doesn't diminish to me the evidence that these critters were most likely flash frozen.

I too have never heard of Mammoths found with dinners in their mouths. Googling also turned up no science journals with that reference, just creationists sites. But some have been found with their stomach contents intact, well enough that we know what they were eating hours before death. The only Mammoth reference to food in it's mouth was from a 1901 find where the Mammoth was killed in a landslide.

$1:

"Death must have certainly occurred very quickly, after it had fallen into a crevasse in the ice, for in its mouth, on the well-preserved tongue, and between its molars we found unchewed food. It consisted of leafy plants and grasses, of whom a few had seeds. ... The mammoth has suddenly come to its end in autumn." - Pfizenmayer, E. W. (1926:131, 132)

http://hanskrause.de/HKHPE/hkhpe_12_01.htm

The most recent famous Mammoth corpse also was found with liquid blood still red with oxygen after 10,000 years in ice:

$1:

"The fragments of muscle tissues, which we've found out of the body, have a natural red color of fresh meat," said lead researcher Semyon Grigoriev of the university's Museum of Mammoths. "The reason for such preservation is that the lower part of the body was underlying in pure ice, and the upper part was found in the middle of tundra."

The paleontologists say they found a liquid they believe to be blood beneath the animal's belly.

"The blood is very dark, it was found in ice cavities bellow the belly and when we broke these cavities with a poll pick, the blood came running out," Grigoriev said. " Interestingly, the temperature at the time of excavation was -7 to –10ºC. It may be assumed that the blood of mammoths had some cryoprotective properties."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... clone-talk

So the Mammoth got trapped in ice and was naturally preserved. Mammoths lived in a near freezing environment, so preservation by freezing occurring soon after death isn't uncommon.

There are also other methods of preserving a corpse without rotting:

$1:

To Fisher, the circumstances of Lyuba’s death were clear. (Suzuki would later propose a different interpretation, seeing more evidence for drowning than asphyxiation.) At the end of the autopsy, while Fisher and his colleagues were suturing up her little body, he also had a revelation about her peculiar smell. His mind at last relaxing after the intense effort of the past three days, he suddenly remembered his experiment with the draft horse and the smell that its bloated chunks of flesh, naturally pickled by lactobacilli, emitted as they bobbed on the surface of the pond. Lyuba had the same smell. Finally, her superb state of preservation made sense. She had literally been pickled after she died, which protected her from rot once her body was exposed again, thousands of years later. The lactic acid produced by the microbes also could have caused the odd bone distortion and muscle separation that Fisher had noticed during the autopsy, and perhaps even encouraged the formation of vivianite crystals by freeing phosphate from her bones.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/ ... eller-text

[N_Fiddledog]

herbie herbie:

C'mon Beav, you're arguing with guys who think 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow were documentaries.

I don't know about 2012 (didn't see it until 2013), but speaking of Day After Tomorrow which side of this argument was it was trying to sell the maroons on the idea global warming was causing the late and record setting freezing this winter attributed to the polar vortex?

Also did you know Al Gore "borrowed" the computer generated footage of massive sheets of ocean ice from Day After Tomorrow to use in his quote unquote "Documentary" Inconvenient Truth?

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

C'mon Beav, you're arguing with guys who think 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow were documentaries.

You probably thought that Al Gore's an inconvenient truth was also a documentary.

[stratos]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

herbie herbie:

C'mon Beav, you're arguing with guys who think 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow were documentaries.

You probably thought that Al Gore's an inconvenient truth was also a documentary.

Shhhh They don't want to think about all the money they spent watching Inconvenient Truth actually went to pay for Al's electric bill that had a bigger carbon foot print then some small counties.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

An Inconvenient Truth

is in the same genre as The Day After Tomorrow, 2012 and Water World ....only with worse acting, special effects and story/plot line.

[herbie]

Al Gore lives in a big house. And Michael Moore is fat.
Therefore the sky is red.
Nothing new to discuss here.

[N_Fiddledog]

Duelin_Dalt Duelin_Dalt:

ROTFL I had heard there were places on the internet where climate change deniers plied their nuttiness. I didn't realize this was one of those. Are there round-earth denial threads here too?

Oh God, another hero who thinks he's going to pop in and win arguments with baseless insults.

Welcome. It's always fun slapping you clowns around with the facts.

[N_Fiddledog]

Duelin_Dalt Duelin_Dalt:

ROTFL I came for the politics but may stay for the comedy.

Got anything like a point relevant to the study of West Antarctic glaciers? Didn't think so.

[Freakinoldguy]

Duelin_Dalt Duelin_Dalt:

ROTFL I had heard there were places on the internet where climate change deniers plied their nuttiness. I didn't realize this was one of those. Are there round-earth denial threads here too?

It's called debate and discussion, something the climate change sycophants of Big Green seem to ignore in their rush to insult, ridicule and silence all opposing thought.

Most people on this forum agree the climate is changing but, the why it's changing was open for debate till your arrived. So, if opposing views on the topic offend your sensibilities we'd all be more than happy to follow your lead and blindly agree with any assessment you make of the topic.

[sandorski]

Duelin_Dalt Duelin_Dalt:

ROTFL I had heard there were places on the internet where climate change deniers plied their nuttiness. I didn't realize this was one of those. Are there round-earth denial threads here too?

Unfortunately. You are not alone though. That said, I mostly just ignore the issue and let them spew their nonsense. Their arguments haven't changed since the 90's and I suspect won't change until they're in the ground.

[Jabberwalker]

stratos stratos:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

herbie herbie:

C'mon Beav, you're arguing with guys who think 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow were documentaries.

You probably thought that Al Gore's an inconvenient truth was also a documentary.

Shhhh They don't want to think about all the money they spent watching Inconvenient Truth actually went to pay for Al's electric bill that had a bigger carbon foot print then some small counties.

I've never seen "An Inconvenient Truth", never seen a Michael Moore commentary on climate change, either. I guess, therefore, I should believe that this climate change malarkey is just another commie "liberal" plot since the idea is unique to Al Gore, Michael Moore and David Suzuki. Together, they cooked the goofy idea up while drinking green teas, somewhere. just to piss off all the Republican truth-tellers.

Did I get it right? These four publicity junkies invented global warming so that they could sell books?

[PluggyRug]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

I've never seen "An Inconvenient Truth", never seen a Michael Moore commentary on climate change, either. I guess, therefore, I should believe that this climate change malarkey is just another commie "liberal" plot since the idea is unique to Al Gore, Michael Moore and David Suzuki. Together, they cooked the goofy idea up while drinking green teas, somewhere. just to piss off all the Republican truth-tellers.

Did I get it right? These four publicity junkies invented global warming so that they could sell books?

Yup, and sell carbon credits. Trouble is, a lot of of "people" believe them.

[Jabberwalker]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

I've never seen "An Inconvenient Truth", never seen a Michael Moore commentary on climate change, either. I guess, therefore, I should believe that this climate change malarkey is just another commie "liberal" plot since the idea is unique to Al Gore, Michael Moore and David Suzuki. Together, they cooked the goofy idea up while drinking green teas, somewhere. just to piss off all the Republican truth-tellers.

Did I get it right? These four publicity junkies invented global warming so that they could sell books?

Yup, and sell carbon credits. Trouble is, a lot of of "people" believe them.

They invented this hoax, all by themselves, eh?