[Zipperfish]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Increased CO2 has also likely contributed to the persistence of the recent pine beetle epidemic in BC.

I thought it was the opposite, where the pine beetle infestation has caused the release of large quantities of CO2.

Well who knows. There have been many pine beetle infestations in the past. The theory is that an extended cold snap puts an end to the infestation, but we haven't been getting quite cold enough to kill the larvae. There's other theories--forest management practices.

The point is that changing one variable in the ecosystem doesn't result in a mere linear or predicatble change in a complex system (i.e. more CO2 = more plants, end-o-story).

[N_Fiddledog]

PluggyRug PluggyRug:

I thought it was the opposite, where the pine beetle infestation has caused the release of large quantities of CO2.

Ever heard this one before?

$1:

According to the journal Science (Nov. 5, 1982), termites alone emit ten times more carbon dioxide than all the factories and automobiles in the world.

http://www.iloveco2.com/2009/04/termite ... -than.html

Don't know how true it is. You see lots of warmers arguing against it, saying stuff like "no they just produce a little methane", but at least this guy claims to offer up a reference.

[Xort]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's not opinion. As I said, it's the result of a study. Plants that grew too fast from too much carbon dioxide died quicker and end up releasing more greenhouse gasses.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/6/1960

Study about insects. Insects do well when their are lots of plants.

$1:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/328/5980/899.abstract

Main text blocked, abstract is claiming CO2 limits the 'assimilation of nitrate into organic nitrogen compounds'. And here I was looking forward to reading up on organic chemistry.

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/ ... e1694.html
And this study just shows that nitrogen might limit the growth enabled by extra CO2.

$1:

Plants do not like increased atmospheric carbon dioxide anymore than we do.

It seems that once you raise the limiting factor on one aspect the other aspects become the limiting factor. Doesn't take your grade 11 to figure that out Ricky.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 3/?no-ist=

And again the wrong argument.

$1:

They have adapted to a certain range, and adaptation to higher concentrations takes time. Time we don't have.

Nice to see you know all the chants of the alarmists. At best (best for your point) plants will grow faster then level back off. Unless their are other factors at work that haven't been accounted for in the controlled tests.

I guess a real factor will be to look at how nitrogen is concentrated into the ecological systems of the world. If any of those systems have a large net positive of accumulated nitrogen then a raise in CO2 will cause a ongoing raise in growth rates. In fact due to having some extra nitrogen around now it's clear that at some higher point of CO2 levels you can have ongoing extra growth, maybe not unlimited but clearly higher than what happens now.

Overall I think you have either outright failed to make your point that higher CO2 will kill the plants, or tried to shift the goalposts to an argument that the higher rate of growth isn't unlimited or that it's not going to head off the increase in CO2.

So, because I'm a nice guy I can give you a 3/10 for your argument and I'll ignore your scumbag tactics and deduct no points for your actions.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Increased CO2 has also likely contributed to the persistence of the recent pine beetle epidemic in BC.

Isn't the pine beetle problem caused by a lack of ultra cold snaps, and the lack of forest fires clearing out huge areas?

IIRC isn't one of the things that global warming causes is more extreme weather, like longer harsher cold snaps?

Or are you of the opinion that global warming causes all the negative weather from a human's point of view, and limits all the good weather from a human's point of view?

[BRAH]

Apparently the Pentagon and the CIA see global warming as a serious threat to national security.

[Jabberwalker]

No doubt.

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Actually, the core of the argument - and the models - is we don't know what effect C02 will have. Will it be slight? Will it be extreme? We don't know.

Welcome back to the land of reality. We missed you.

Except...

$1:

That was the whole point of the link that N_F ad hominemed.

No it wasn't. I mean yeah, I ad hominemed, cause if ever there was ever anybody in need of a good, ol fashioned, full-throated ad hominem it's Michael (upside down graph) Mann, but what you say was Michael's point wasn't it at all.

He was pretty clear in suggesting he had the cold hard proof of prophesy, and 'By George, you can see for yourself. It's right here in this computer model. Ignore the fact that these models have never shown any ability to predict much of anything in the past. This one's the real deal. And oh my God, we're all gonna die. Well you are anyway. If you don't believe my genius model, I mean.'

[Zipperfish]

Xort Xort:

.
Isn't the pine beetle problem caused by a lack of ultra cold snaps, and the lack of forest fires clearing out huge areas?

IIRC isn't one of the things that global warming causes is more extreme weather, like longer harsher cold snaps?

Who knows? there's many competing theories. An extended cold snap, for example, is known to kill larvae in pine bark. The exact magnitude and length of the cold snap depends on the growth stage of the larva (i.e. what part of winter it is). Hot dry summer make infetsations easier. Forest management practices (i.e. preventing "natural" forest fires leading to denser undergrowth andmore trees) may play a role.

I don't know if global warming causes more extreme weather. That's a pretty blanket statement to make in my opinion. I could see it causing more heat waves in certain parts of the world. Obviously as the magnitude of warming increases, it will change wind and weather patterns which will have effects, though I don't think they are very predictable right now.

$1:

Or are you of the opinion that global warming causes all the negative weather from a human's point of view, and limits all the good weather from a human's point of view?

In my opinion there will be winners and losers. Southern California may become much drier, for example. But Oregon may become much more beachy. The short term cost will just about always be negative, in my opinion, due to the adaptation cost. So Oregon may end up with better tourism and agriculture, for example, but they will have to pay the capital to change agricutural practices and build their Disneylands.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

And oh my God, we're all gonna die.

Not much of a prediction, really.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

And oh my God, we're all gonna die.

Not much of a prediction, really.

Oh sure that's easy for you to say. I imagine there's some sort of warmist rapture for you guys, but what about those of us who have blasphemed against the Holy Hockey Team or the apostles James and Al or the Sainted Suzuki. It's 2036 for us says the prophet Michael.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

And oh my God, we're all gonna die.

Not much of a prediction, really.

Oh sure that's easy for you to say. I imagine there's some sort of warmist rapture for you guys, but what about those of us who have blasphemed against the Holy Hockey Team or the apostles James and Al or the Sainted Suzuki. It's 2036 for us says the prophet Michael.

I'm goping to Prog Heaven. Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, Rush, Muse--all the great Progs will be there. Looking forward to it.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I'm goping to Prog Heaven. Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, Rush, Muse--all the great Progs will be there. Looking forward to it.

Heaven? Silly boy. You think those guys are going to heaven. It is to laugh.

Where Progs go Chapman murders Lennon over and over again below the steps of the Dakota Apartments, Keith Richards is strapped in bed with an unstoppable IV drip of battery acid sticking in his arm, and Pete Townsend drowns eternally in a lake of child urine.

[Jabberwalker]

definitely meds time

[N_Fiddledog]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

definitely meds time

Yeah cause nuttiness is only just humor when you do it, right?

Stick with me kid, I'll show you the trick called lucid periods. There a thing you need to learn.

[Jabberwalker]

I'll try it in exchange for giving you spelling, grammar and syntax lessons.

[N_Fiddledog]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

I'll try in in exchange for giving you spelling, grammar and syntax lessons.

First work on your fast typing. Fixed it before you got your post through. Nyah, Nyah.

Oh and