[Brenda]

Tricks Tricks:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

Cool. I am glad you think that way. All people on business trips, truck drivers etc etc, people who are in the hospital, Yep, LAZY BITCHES!!!

I hope you still hunt your own food, other wise, every time you buy it, you're lazy ass is enabled. Just sayin.

Advanced polling is available to all Canadians. With all the advanced polling options taken into account, there is no reason to justify the risk of online voting for the sake of the select few who happen to miss every polling day.

This. I'm pretty sure you can vote out of country. So there is no excuse.


Good to know buying food equates voting to you. That's not fucktarded at all.

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Tricks Tricks:

No, I bank online. I do virtually everything online. But yeah, I'd rather keep it in person for voting because it's more secure and much much much harder to screw with.

Why are we trying to enable the lazy?

Geeeez, I need a mop for all the irony dripping from that statement

[Canadian_Mind]

Brenda Brenda:

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

Maybe it does both?

Either way, you get 4 hours off work minimum to vote, why fuck with that? Set up online voting and people wont get that perk anymore.

[Brenda]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

Maybe it does both?

Either way, you get 4 hours off work minimum to vote, why fuck with that? Set up online voting and people wont get that perk anymore.

Of course they do! Although I wonder why you get 4 hours off, when you can go before or after work, right? Talking about costs for the employers! (and... enabling the lazy... 4 hours minimum? Seriously?? For pushing a button?? Or using a red pencil???)

Anyhow, you do not HAVE to vote online, it could be an option. Like advanced polling is an option, and I highly doubt that the people who use that option get 4 hours off?

[Tricks]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Tricks Tricks:

No, I bank online. I do virtually everything online. But yeah, I'd rather keep it in person for voting because it's more secure and much much much harder to screw with.

Why are we trying to enable the lazy?

Geeeez, I need a mop for all the irony dripping from that statement

I assure your I realise the hypocrisy.

[Tricks]

Brenda Brenda:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

Maybe it does both?

Either way, you get 4 hours off work minimum to vote, why fuck with that? Set up online voting and people wont get that perk anymore.

Of course they do! Although I wonder why you get 4 hours off, when you can go before or after work, right? Talking about costs for the employers! (and... enabling the lazy... 4 hours minimum? Seriously?? For pushing a button?? Or using a red pencil???)

Anyhow, you do not HAVE to vote online, it could be an option. Like advanced polling is an option, and I highly doubt that the people who use that option get 4 hours off?

Everyone, no matter what, gets 4 hours off.

[Tricks]

Brenda Brenda:

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

Except voting and buying food is a pretty big difference.

[Canadian_Mind]

Brenda Brenda:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

OMG, ya gotta love twisting shit, don't you. You weren't talking about voting anymore, you were talking about enabling the lazy.

All technology is to make life more efficient, or... enable the lazy. Depends on how you look at it and how it suits your opinion.

Maybe it does both?

Either way, you get 4 hours off work minimum to vote, why fuck with that? Set up online voting and people wont get that perk anymore.

Of course they do! Although I wonder why you get 4 hours off, when you can go before or after work, right? Talking about costs for the employers! (and... enabling the lazy... 4 hours minimum? Seriously?? For pushing a button?? Or using a red pencil???)

Anyhow, you do not HAVE to vote online, it could be an option. Like advanced polling is an option, and I highly doubt that the people who use that option get 4 hours off?

Everyone is entitled to 4 hours because in some cases, it can take that long to vote.

You can get the 4 hours off no matter what. It's big money for you if you're employer doesn't. And why are you more concerned about the company than you are about a pesons ability to be able to go out and vote? :\

[Brenda]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Brenda Brenda:

Of course they do! Although I wonder why you get 4 hours off, when you can go before or after work, right? Talking about costs for the employers! (and... enabling the lazy... 4 hours minimum? Seriously?? For pushing a button?? Or using a red pencil???)

Anyhow, you do not HAVE to vote online, it could be an option. Like advanced polling is an option, and I highly doubt that the people who use that option get 4 hours off?

Everyone is entitled to 4 hours because in some cases, it can take that long to vote.

You can get the 4 hours off no matter what. It's big money for you if you're employer doesn't. And why are you more concerned about the company than you are about a pesons ability to be able to go out and vote? :\

I was told that "voting online" would be a HUGE waste of money.
Giving 20 million people 4 hours off is NOT?? Really??

Btw, I am not "more concerned about the company than I am about a persons ability to be able to go out and vote". They can always go before or after work. Polling stations are open from 7am-9pm, right?

[OnTheIce]

Tricks Tricks:

No, I bank online. I do virtually everything online. But yeah, I'd rather keep it in person for voting because it's more secure and much much much harder to screw with.

Why are we trying to enable the lazy?

I suggest you get out there and volunteer your time during a campaign and see how many people have trouble getting out of their homes or hospital beds to vote.

That's just one example.

It's got little to do with enabling the lazy.

It's about getting more people to vote and allowing those who can't get to a polling station the option to vote.

If you think your paper vote is hard to screw with, you need to spend election day inside a polling station and see what goes on.

Your theory that all is well and perfectly safe with paper voting will be blown out of the water.

[DrCaleb]

sandorski sandorski:

Tricks Tricks:

sandorski sandorski:

By cutting International Access.

To ALL Canadian hosted sites? Is that legal? Sure you could do it to this one but to all sites seems like it would be a little trickier. To be honest I don't know.

Not sure it is Legal, but it could be made Legal. I was just throwing out a suggestion. It's really just a matter of cutting off access to outside the country for part of a day. There are a limited amount of Lines/Satellites that allow access into Canada.

Legal is moot. It's not possible. The Internet was designed to survive a world wide nuclear attack, and the North American part of it is redundant in so many ways as to make it impossible to turn off every entry point. It routes around failures to compensate. And if you did, it would take one guy with a wireless router near the border with the US to breach the 'lockout'. Or a dial up modem.

[DrCaleb]

Wada Wada:

Could it not be set up so I can go back in and see how I voted, as a check?

If you had that option, there is a record of who you voted for somewhere. Very bad idea. The whole point of the way the paper system is set up is so that no one can ever know who you vote for.

If you leave the voting station with any indication of who you voted for or there is some way to see who you vote for, that is how the brownshirts affected German elections - by bullying people outside polling stations. That is why Canadian elections do not leave any record of a persons' vote. Ever. I've gone to the person running the ballot station, which was inside a school gym, to have the cameras covered in the gym before I would vote.

On line voting, in order to work - must use some form of ID to bring up a 'ballot', and we trust that there is no link between the IDs we use to get the 'online' ballot and the ballot we cast.

With pen and paper, we can see them cross our name off the list. We can see them cross the number of the ballot off the list - and we can see that there is no record between the two. Who gets what ballot is random. We can also see the ballot, that there is no way to differentiate that ballot from any other. We therefore know there is no way to record what an individual chooses on their ballot.

With electonic and internet voting, we have to trust the altruism of the programmers and the companies producing the hardware. However, there are myriad examples of just how these companies cannot be trusted. Like Stalin said, it's who counts the votes who controls the election.

There are open source voting machines, ones where the hardware and software are open for all to see, that can be verified as to how they work and how they protect our confidentiality. But governemnts tend to pick the closed, proprietary systems that cannot be inspected and have proven unreliable in the past.

So my choice is for the Pen and Paper ballot, that we all know works.

[Dragon-Dancer]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Wada Wada:

Could it not be set up so I can go back in and see how I voted, as a check?

If you had that option, there is a record of who you voted for somewhere. Very bad idea. The whole point of the way the paper system is set up is so that no one can ever know who you vote for.

If you leave the voting station with any indication of who you voted for or there is some way to see who you vote for, that is how the brownshirts affected German elections - by bullying people outside polling stations. That is why Canadian elections do not leave any record of a persons' vote. Ever. I've gone to the person running the ballot station, which was inside a school gym, to have the cameras covered in the gym before I would vote.

On line voting, in order to work - must use some form of ID to bring up a 'ballot', and we trust that there is no link between the IDs we use to get the 'online' ballot and the ballot we cast.

With pen and paper, we can see them cross our name off the list. We can see them cross the number of the ballot off the list - and we can see that there is no record between the two. Who gets what ballot is random. We can also see the ballot, that there is no way to differentiate that ballot from any other. We therefore know there is no way to record what an individual chooses on their ballot.

With electonic and internet voting, we have to trust the altruism of the programmers and the companies producing the hardware. However, there are myriad examples of just how these companies cannot be trusted. Like Stalin said, it's who counts the votes who controls the election.

There are open source voting machines, ones where the hardware and software are open for all to see, that can be verified as to how they work and how they protect our confidentiality. But governemnts tend to pick the closed, proprietary systems that cannot be inspected and have proven unreliable in the past.

So my choice is for the Pen and Paper ballot, that we all know works.

That is a very well reasoned response. As you say, it could be done. It's entirely possible to have a voter registry in the security layer that just ticks you off a list as having voted without recording anything about who you voted for. It's also entirely possible to create a results database that only tracks the vote itself without any connection to who the voter was.

The problem is ensuring that these things are true independently from a trusted source and that there hasn't been any tampering in the implementation. In the end it's a matter of how much you trust the people who are doing the work and running the system. I don't know if it's that much different than trusting the people who are working at the poling station, those transporting the results or those counting them but trust is the key.

I would probably be willing to trust it because I have no definitive reason not to.

[DrCaleb]

Dragon-Dancer Dragon-Dancer:

I would probably be willing to trust it because I have no definitive reason not to.

And I have the opposite problem. I believe people are generally good and fair, but politics does not corrupt absolutely so much as it attracts the corruptable.

"Trust in God. All others pay cash."

[Tricks]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Tricks Tricks:

No, I bank online. I do virtually everything online. But yeah, I'd rather keep it in person for voting because it's more secure and much much much harder to screw with.

Why are we trying to enable the lazy?

I suggest you get out there and volunteer your time during a campaign and see how many people have trouble getting out of their homes or hospital beds to vote.

That's just one example.

It's got little to do with enabling the lazy.

It's about getting more people to vote and allowing those who can't get to a polling station the option to vote.

If you think your paper vote is hard to screw with, you need to spend election day inside a polling station and see what goes on.

Your theory that all is well and perfectly safe with paper voting will be blown out of the water.

It's safer because it's smaller. One polling station getting messed with isn't going to change an election.

If it's for people who are disabled and struggle to get out of their homes or people in hospital beds, then I'm ok with finding an easier way with them to vote. I don't think the internet is the answer to that, but I'm also not sure what is. What worries me is Joe Blow who normally couldn't be bothered to vote cause he doesn't care will vote cause it's easy. Yeah I get that it's his right to vote, and I don't want to deny him that. Think of how many votes the marijuana party would get!

If this were going to be reserved for the disabled, or the ill, and they could find a way to make that work, then cool.