[Winnipegger]

In general I am arguing: retain our CF-18 fighters as long as possible. Defer the expense of replacing them to as far in the future as we can. Once we do need to replace our fighters (2020 or farther in the future), then get Eurofighter Typhoons.

[Regina]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In general I am arguing: retain our CF-18 fighters as long as possible. Defer the expense of replacing them to as far in the future as we can. Once we do need to replace our fighters (2020 or farther in the future), then get Eurofighter Typhoons.

You’re arguing with an internet education and have no idea what the capabilities or lack of capabilities means to the argument. It was also pointed out by Eyebrock why the Euro option shouldn’t be an option. But by all means go ahead and post the stuff you can find on the net. Our F-18s can be upgraded to be better than there were but can’t be upgraded to integrate with NATO in a combat situation. Therefore you need an aircraft that can integrate with NATO if you plan on being an active partner.

[EyeBrock]

Regina Regina:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In general I am arguing: retain our CF-18 fighters as long as possible. Defer the expense of replacing them to as far in the future as we can. Once we do need to replace our fighters (2020 or farther in the future), then get Eurofighter Typhoons.

You’re arguing with an internet education and have no idea what the capabilities or lack of capabilities means to the argument. It was also pointed out by Eyebrock why the Euro option shouldn’t be an option. But by all means go ahead and post the stuff you can find on the net. Our F-18s can be upgraded to be better than there were but can’t be upgraded to integrate with NATO in a combat situation. Therefore you need an aircraft that can integrate with NATO if you plan on being an active partner.

Anybody can be an wiki expert these days Regina. Educated arguments are few and far between.

[Regina]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Anybody can be an wiki expert these days Regina. Educated arguments are few and far between.

Roger that!

[Mustang1]

Regina Regina:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In general I am arguing: retain our CF-18 fighters as long as possible. Defer the expense of replacing them to as far in the future as we can. Once we do need to replace our fighters (2020 or farther in the future), then get Eurofighter Typhoons.

You’re arguing with an internet education and have no idea what the capabilities or lack of capabilities means to the argument. It was also pointed out by Eyebrock why the Euro option shouldn’t be an option. But by all means go ahead and post the stuff you can find on the net. Our F-18s can be upgraded to be better than there were but can’t be upgraded to integrate with NATO in a combat situation. Therefore you need an aircraft that can integrate with NATO if you plan on being an active partner.

BOOM! Nice...

[Mustang1]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Regina Regina:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In general I am arguing: retain our CF-18 fighters as long as possible. Defer the expense of replacing them to as far in the future as we can. Once we do need to replace our fighters (2020 or farther in the future), then get Eurofighter Typhoons.

You’re arguing with an internet education and have no idea what the capabilities or lack of capabilities means to the argument. It was also pointed out by Eyebrock why the Euro option shouldn’t be an option. But by all means go ahead and post the stuff you can find on the net. Our F-18s can be upgraded to be better than there were but can’t be upgraded to integrate with NATO in a combat situation. Therefore you need an aircraft that can integrate with NATO if you plan on being an active partner.

Anybody can be an wiki expert these days Regina. Educated arguments are few and far between.

Yep, yep and yep. Never have truer words been written.

[Winnipegger]

Rude. I could point out that I have studied engineering, I have practiced electronics and computer engineering, I am a computer programmer, systems administrator, and computer technician. I have also studied metallurgy, and am a blacksmith. I apprenticed under a couple master blacksmiths and have a coal forge and 200 pound anvil in my back yard. I have also custom built computers, attaching cable connectors by hand and custom machining connector panels; sometimes with power tools but other times there is no substitute for simply using a rat tail file to custom shape a panel to fit an electrical connector. I have swapped motherboards that do not use the same connectors, re-pinning connector cables to match the new board. I was a contractor for one company that manufactured autopilots for military UAVs. I designed and built the automated calibration system for the sensors, and integrated into it the manufacturing step to load firmware and initialize the board. The system included an environmental chamber using 430 volt heaters, and liquid nitrogen to cool. I had to optimize the control system to make maximum use of liquid nitrogen, while calibrating the maximum number of autopilots at the same time, ensuring mil-spec compliance, keeping costs to a minimum, finding suppliers who could custom machine certain key components, ensuring the system could be operated by technicians with minimal training after I was gone, and documenting where to acquire replacement parts and how to hand machine them to fit this system. Those autopilots are currently in use in several models of military UAVs around the world.

So, you say you are a "driver". How many engines have you rebuilt? Can you tell me how to repair bent landing gear without incurring metal fatigue? You have gone on and on about avionics; now tell me exactly how they work. How does the buss work? Have you ever written a device driver? Have you ever analyzed total systems capacity load? Computer systems analysis is what I do for a living, and what I have done for the last 28 1/2 years. Integrated systems analysis is my life. My education is from university, but you are just a pilot. I could go further along this route, but you get the point. I'm sure you don't like it, so why do you try to dish it out?

Now can we stop blustering over who is more qualified?

[Regina]

You have an anvil?

[Mustang1]

Actually, Regina's studied Aristotelian philosophy, theology, alchemy, archaeology, neuroscience, proctology, botany, and has dabbled in Wicca. He apprenticed under Jim Floyd, Lester Pearson, Obi Wan Kenobi and Buckaroo Banzai and was once the esteemed John Hughes Chair of Kick Ass 80s movies at the Yo Yo Dyne Institute. He's custom built Cylons, Avro Arrows, Jet Cars, flux capacitors, X-Wings and he once made a Bricklin SV-1, just to prove it could be done on pennies and with pie plates, gas trimmers and a Nintendo Game Boy. He's swapped chicks, chips and checkers and never really cared. He designed, calibrated, castrated and passed through his lower intestines, the Hughes Fire control system, the Sparrow II and an Iroquois engine. He invented the iBook simply so others would look cool while cruising Facebook and could access the Net long after he was done creating it. He rested on the 7th day

His education is from pre-school, elementary, secondary, post-secondary, life, your life, someone else's life, extraterrestrial life and he holds honorary degrees from DeVry, Medix, Harvard, Cambridge, Brock, First Choice Haircutters and Wiki University. He's fluent in Klingon, Jawa, Binary, Unix, Playstation, Latin, Aramaic, Dog, Pig Latin and he has conversational Italian. He was the inspiration for Han Solo, Green Lantern, Batman, Pikachu , Buckaroo Banzai, Flash Gordon, Optimus Prime, Jem and 1/2 of the Holograms and John Bender from the Breakfast Club.

Have you been to Endor? Have you kicked Skynet's ass? Have you custom built a functioning Avro Arrow in your backyard? Have you shot Greedo first? Have you bought a fake Tommy Hilfiger shirt (you know the ones that say "Tommy", but everyone knows is a fake, but you buy it anyway, hoping, just hoping that someone will think its real) at a flea market? Have you done all of this since last Wednesday? Regina has.

I'm pretty sure he's qualified to comment on anything, anytime to anyone. Why? Regina is the Most Interesting Man in the World! Stay thirsty my friends.

[EyeBrock]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Rude. I could point out that I have studied engineering, I have practiced electronics and computer engineering, I am a computer programmer, systems administrator, and computer technician. I have also studied metallurgy, and am a blacksmith. I apprenticed under a couple master blacksmiths and have a coal forge and 200 pound anvil in my back yard. I have also custom built computers, attaching cable connectors by hand and custom machining connector panels; sometimes with power tools but other times there is no substitute for simply using a rat tail file to custom shape a panel to fit an electrical connector. I have swapped motherboards that do not use the same connectors, re-pinning connector cables to match the new board. I was a contractor for one company that manufactured autopilots for military UAVs. I designed and built the automated calibration system for the sensors, and integrated into it the manufacturing step to load firmware and initialize the board. The system included an environmental chamber using 430 volt heaters, and liquid nitrogen to cool. I had to optimize the control system to make maximum use of liquid nitrogen, while calibrating the maximum number of autopilots at the same time, ensuring mil-spec compliance, keeping costs to a minimum, finding suppliers who could custom machine certain key components, ensuring the system could be operated by technicians with minimal training after I was gone, and documenting where to acquire replacement parts and how to hand machine them to fit this system. Those autopilots are currently in use in several models of military UAVs around the world.

So, you say you are a "driver". How many engines have you rebuilt? Can you tell me how to repair bent landing gear without incurring metal fatigue? You have gone on and on about avionics; now tell me exactly how they work. How does the buss work? Have you ever written a device driver? Have you ever analyzed total systems capacity load? Computer systems analysis is what I do for a living, and what I have done for the last 28 1/2 years. Integrated systems analysis is my life. My education is from university, but you are just a pilot. I could go further along this route, but you get the point. I'm sure you don't like it, so why do you try to dish it out?

Now can we stop blustering over who is more qualified?

But you seem to know nothing about combat aircraft and you are also unwilling to take others opinions into account on this subject.

Wiki away.

[DundasBill]

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what does being a blacksmith have to do with expertise in modern fighters?

[SigPig]

I revert from my previous opinion and say Super Hornets all the way!

On that note....*Puts feet up*

[Winnipegger]

Blacksmiths do understand metal. If you have ever talked to technicians who maintain CF-18s, they often have to straighten bent landing gear from a hard landing. Any operational aircraft has to be able to take that, and the landing gear has to be relatively easy to fix. If you don't understand the crystalline structure of metal (and there are crystals in it) then straightening it the wrong way will either break it immediately, or worse cause metal fatigue that will cause failure in use. I'm saying I do know that stuff, you obviously don't.

Don't try to shut me down or dismiss my ideas. That's rude. Sure, I wish I was far more involved than I am, but I have worked on the design and construction of current operational military aircraft (if you can call UAVs "aircraft"). I have volunteered at the Western Canada Aviation Museum, but unfortunately haven't been able to spend much time there. They work on aircraft during week days, when I'm at my job.

One of the big advantages of a SuperHornet, one you guys haven't mentioned yet, is that it was deliberately designed to be easy to service. Aircraft technicians can remove parts for repair or replacement relatively easily and quickly. That keeps the maximum number of aircraft on a carrier operational at any one time. That is a big factor and one asset of the SuperHornet.

However, you guys keep talking about some pilot blustering about how good he his and how proud he is about his aircraft, without giving any specifics. I'm sure any combat pilot can make best use of whatever he/she is given, but that is not an issue when selecting the next fighter. The issue is actually which will accomplish the mission and win the fight against truly formidable opponents.

True, I have talked to aircraft technicians who maintain CC-130 Hercules aircraft here in Winnipeg, and watched interviews with technicians who maintain CF-18s in Cold Lake. (Would like to talk to those guys, but haven't had the opportunity yet.) I haven't talked to anyone who worked on a Typhoon, so I don't know maintenance issues there. But, I don't think you guys are taking into account who our opponents are.

[EyeBrock]

If you scroll back a few pages I mentioned how easy the US aircraft are to service over the Typhoon. I also went into how the Tornado, (another Euro development) is universally detested by the RAF ground crews who service it.

That is why I think we should go with a US aircraft over the Euro options, plus all the infrastructure around air combat systems that are very different on both sides of the Atlantic. Buying the F18E would be the smoothest transition from an organisational capacity view of the CF.

A good area to study on the transition from Hornet to Super Hornet would be the Aussie model. They are getting F18E/F's as a 7-10 year stop gap on F35 acquisition.
Their defence needs are slightly different as they are surrounded by potential belligerents and they are keen to get the ‘top shelf’ products.
The Aussies also spend 2.4% of GDP on defence compared to our 1.1%. They want to buy the best, right now and they see the F18E/F as the best, right now.

And as for people being testy with you, when you present an argument that we should continue to fly what is basically an obsolescent aircraft until it can fly no more, you will lose the sympathy of those of us who have been and still are professionals in the Air Force and Defence community.

It just lessens your credibility, anvil or no anvil.

[Regina]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Blacksmiths do understand metal. If you have ever talked to technicians who maintain CF-18s, they often have to straighten bent landing gear from a hard landing. Any operational aircraft has to be able to take that, and the landing gear has to be relatively easy to fix. If you don't understand the crystalline structure of metal (and there are crystals in it) then straightening it the wrong way will either break it immediately, or worse cause metal fatigue that will cause failure in use. I'm saying I do know that stuff, you obviously don't.

Don't try to shut me down or dismiss my ideas. That's rude. Sure, I wish I was far more involved than I am, but I have worked on the design and construction of current operational military aircraft (if you can call UAVs "aircraft"). I have volunteered at the Western Canada Aviation Museum, but unfortunately haven't been able to spend much time there. They work on aircraft during week days, when I'm at my job.

I've never heard of landing gear being "straightened" out because of a hard landing, so I'm call BS on this one. All the landing gear that I've ever seen and been in contact with is T6 which usually cracks and breaks because of it's high tensile strength and is replaced. The only hammer I've ever seen put to T6 was to mold a tail ski for a Cessna 185 and it was done over a wooden mold for obvious reasons and isn't a stressed part of the landing gear. It's also been close to 30 years but I've changed landing gear and or floats on pretty much everything from a J-3 Cub to a Twin Otter so that probably trumps your "almost" volunteer work at WCAM. I've also done re-covering and total rebuilds on Super Cubs back then as well.
Also rebuilt a Big Block 396 with .060 over 13:1 pistons from the ground up too....which runs on Av gas.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

However, you guys keep talking about some pilot blustering about how good he his and how proud he is about his aircraft, without giving any specifics. I'm sure any combat pilot can make best use of whatever he/she is given, but that is not an issue when selecting the next fighter. The issue is actually which will accomplish the mission and win the fight against truly formidable opponents.

Where did anybody say anything about a "pilot blustering"? If you're referring to my comment about a US Naval fighter pilot I spoke with, you need to read that again. He spoke nothing of his talent although I'm sure he had much of it. He was at that time flying the F-18 Hornet but had also flown the F-18 Super Hornet. He said the aircraft were not really similar at all and that the Super Hornet was a far superior aircraft, which is why they were changing over to them and still are. So on that alone I will go with his experience and wisdom rather than Wikipedia and your anvil.