[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Ah now I understand, it's your opinion.

Really, comparing a cop taking down an armed robber and a doctor checking blood pressure is so very comparable as a basis for your no swearing argument.

Please...

I never said a cop's job was the same as a doctor's, but it's certainly not my opinion that professionals will be reprimanded if they swear on the job. A teacher swears, they get written up. A doctor swears, they get written up. That's the standard professionals are held to.

[novachick]

novachick novachick:

Hyack Hyack:

$1:

whatchamacallit

Damn nova, I really do wish you would quit using this high tech nomenclature...

nomen....wha

You couldn't just say vocabulary

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Ah now I understand, it's your opinion.

Really, comparing a cop taking down an armed robber and a doctor checking blood pressure is so very comparable as a basis for your no swearing argument.

Please...

I never said a cop's job was the same as a doctor's, but it's certainly not my opinion that professionals will be reprimanded if they swear on the job. A teacher swears, they get written up. A doctor swears, they get written up. That's the standard professionals are held to.

Is that opinion or is there a link you could attach the outlines the standard of professionalism that states expletives are not be used in conversation?

[ShepherdsDog]

Lemmy,

I was told to park my ass several times as a student. You knew you were in trouble when the teacher used that tone, and you ceased and desisted in any and all activities and immediately complied.

You obviously fail to understand the context in which the language is used. A casual traffic stop wouldn't elicit that kind of language, a situation that requires immediate compliance due to life threatening circumstances could.

As for your assertion that a doctor, teacher or police officer would be wrote up, I would need to see evidence supporting this, because I have seen and heard situations that run contrary to what you say. No reprimands were issued in any of these situations. On a personal note, I was a member of HMCS Yukon's landing and boarding party, and in a few instances I didn't bother with the niceties of please and thank-you.

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Lemmy,

I was told to park my ass several times as a student. You knew you were in trouble when the teacher used that tone, and you ceased and desisted in any and all activities and immediately complied.

You obviously fail to understand the context in which the language is used. A casual traffic stop wouldn't elicit that kind of language, a situation that requires immediate compliance due to life threatening circumstances could.

As for your assertion that a doctor, teacher or police officer would be wrote up, I would need to see evidence supporting this, because I have seen and heard situations that run contrary to what you say. No reprimands were issued in any of these situations. On a personal note, I was a member of HMCS Yukon's landing and boarding party, and in a few instances I didn't bother with the words please and thank-you.

Funny that. We didn't use it all that often either.

[Yogi]

From the Edmonton Sun; Letters to The Editor:

I don't swear at those I come into contact with on my job and I don't appreciate being told where and when I can swear. Swearing policy? Please. Respectfully ...I don't think so. "Sir, please stop beating on that gentleman. Ma'am, please exit that stolen vehicle with your lovely arms in the air. Young man, please put down your weapon." How long has it been since our chief has worked the street? There are so many more important issues which need attention. Chief Mike Boyd is causing such morale-plummeting duress amongst the decent members of our Edmonton Police Service. Never has that happened with any other EPS chief. The stress and harm this man is causing our members is deplorable. He came here from Toronto with his own idea that he was going to weed out the bad seeds. This isn't Toronto. Our members are morally upstanding, decent, hardworking men and women who don't need an alleged "leader" who has attacked his own since he arrived. Our members are jumping ship like rats and taking their experience to other police services and the private sector in, again, unprecedented numbers. That's why there is such a hiring campaign on. Boyd is here on a temporary contract. We're here for life. He'll be moving on, patting himself on the back, and the EPS we used to be will be left in shambles.

Fay Goss (21-year member in good standing until this letter.)

(It takes courage to state convictions in a group situation.)

Members of the Edmonton Police Service are being reminded about using foul language at work and with the public. Apparently, using such language could possibly generate an Internal Affairs complaint. In my own defence, I come by this swearing thing honestly. I recall being "sworn in" as a member of the Edmonton police years ago. And Thursday will be a tough day when I "swear to tell the truth" in court. Seems like I'm doomed. I can't really even bite my tongue, because it's buried in my cheek.

Randy Kuntz

(You're so &!@^#%$ funny.)

[Yogi]

Boyd's badge blues
Top cop has lost support, says police union boss

By FRANK LANDRY, CITY HALL BUREAU

Police Chief Mike Boyd has lost the support of frustrated rank-and-file officers, many of whom are flocking to work for other agencies, says the head of the cop union.

"I think his heart is in the right place, but I think that he has lost the membership, to a large extent," said Sgt. Tony Simioni, head of the Edmonton Police Association.

Simioni said he bases that on complaints he hears regularly in the course of his work as a representative for officers. "The people don't come to me and say, 'Gee, the chief did a good job today.' "

Instead he hears complaints that Boyd "has his priorities mixed up" and that he "puts his own needs in front of the service."

The latest controversy involves a policy that prohibits cops from swearing while on duty, which has some officers riled up.

"I don't swear at those I come into contact with on my job and I don't appreciate being told where and when I can swear," Fay Goss, a cop with 21 years' experience, wrote in an e-mail to Sun Media.

"Swearing policy? Please. Respectfully, I don't think so."

Goss questioned whether officers would have to now use phrases like, "Sir, please stop beating on that gentleman," and "Ma'am, please exit that stolen vehicle with your lovely arms in the air."

She said such policies have caused morale to plummet.

"The stress and harm this man is causing our members is deplorable," she wrote.

Simioni said the concerns are not uncommon.

"He's facing some pretty significant challenges on the amount of support that he has amongst the rank and file," he said, referring to Boyd, who was not available yesterday for comment.

"I've told that to him, face to face, that he needs to do some work in that area."

Simioni said the chief -- who he acknowledged may be "misunderstood" -- needs to do a better job of communicating to officers the reasons for some of his decisions.

One of the main concerns officers have is a "lack of discretion" over what internal matters go before public disciplinary hearings, Simioni said. The union also has an ongoing grievance over what they call a lack of two-officer cars.

As a result of some of these decisions, Simioni said, more officers are leaving the EPS for other police services.

"We've had people from Prince Albert, Sask., and other places that would appear to be a lot less progressive go back in frustration, in dismay."

An EPS report released in January showed 51% of employees had considered quitting in the 12 months prior to participating in an internal survey. Many cited low morale as the reason.

[Lemmy]

About 6 or 7 years ago, I was leaving campus to go downtown for lunch. It was a snowy December day. A car pulled out of a student lot and rammed into my car. The driver wasn't paying attention and failed to yield from the lot (and was charged by the police for failing to yield). I got out of my car, asked if they were "fucking stupid?" and strung off a few other f-bombs. This wasn't on university property, it was on a public street. There was AMAZINGLY no damage to my car (I think the snow on the road meant that he just plowed me a little ways down the road and spun me around.)

The next day I got called into the Dean's office and was asked if I swore at a student. I told him that I wouldn't answer any questions about ANYTHING I did off campus during non-work hours. The next day, the Dean, along with a witness, delivered me a "disciplinary letter" that was being placed in my personnel file for using profanity. I had to apply to have that letter removed from my file after 1 year. At that hearing, I had to swear that I had not used profanity in the presence of any students in the past 12 months.

Sure, teachers say "Sit your ass down" all the time. If they do, and someone complains, they will be written up for it (same with doctors, lawyers, veterinarians or any other professionals). If you don't believe that, then I suggest you ask a professional yourself. Do their codes of professional conduct say "no swearing"? No, that's the whole point. That conduct is UNDERSTOOD to be expected of a professional.

From the Ontario College of Teachers: http://www.oct.ca/octsitesearch/default ... =profanity -- disciplinary rulings for teachers' uses of profanity in Ontario. These are just the ones that get sent to the College of Teachers. Less serious complaints are dealt with by the principal and end up with teachers either receiving disciplinary letters in their personnel files or suspensions (yes, teachers can get suspended too).

If you truly think that teachers and doctors are allowed to swear and won't be disciplined if there's a complaint, then you're living in fantasy land. As I've shown, that can extend to circumstances well away from the classroom or hospital.

So, either cops are professionals or they aren't. I think highly enough of them that I think they ARE professionals. Or, maybe they're not professionals. Maybe they're just hired help like furniture movers, factroy grunts and swab-jockies. If that's what they are, then let them curse up a storm. But don't go telling me that professionals are allowed to swear, because I know from personal experience that we aren't.

[romanP]

Yogi Yogi:

The latest controversy involves a policy that prohibits cops from swearing while on duty, which has some officers riled up.

"I don't swear at those I come into contact with on my job and I don't appreciate being told where and when I can swear," Fay Goss, a cop with 21 years' experience, wrote in an e-mail to Sun Media.

"Swearing policy? Please. Respectfully, I don't think so."

Goss questioned whether officers would have to now use phrases like, "Sir, please stop beating on that gentleman," and "Ma'am, please exit that stolen vehicle with your lovely arms in the air."

Sounds like these cops are a bunch of cynical whiners. Someone needs to teach them that it is entirely possible to be forcefully assertive without swearing. Or maybe they should have signed up to learn how to operate construction machinery instead of joining the police force.

[Yogi]

What is blatantly obvious is the fact that of all those who are against the use of offensive language by police, none are wearing a badge!

Common sense would dictate that the situation in which the offensive language is used be considered!

[ASLplease]

I think that cops should switch to using "freaking", "Icehole", "Bastage", "Fargone" and "Poo Poo Face".

Lets see someone have a problem with that!

[romanP]

Yes, and we'll make police wear clown suits as uniforms.

[Regina]

romanP romanP:

Yes, and we'll make police wear clown suits as uniforms.

Sorry.......thought you were talking about the OPP's hats.

[Bodah]

Yogi Yogi:

What is blatantly obvious is the fact that of all those who are against the use of offensive language by police, none are wearing a badge!

Common sense would dictate that the situation in which the offensive language is used be considered!

Exactly, and I bet most of the people agreeing cops shouldn't be swearing don't have half of what it takes to be a cop. But they have the nerve to tell them how to do their job.

I sure as hell couldn't and wouldn't want to do that job.

[ShepherdsDog]

Lemmy Lemmy:

About 6 or 7 years ago, I was leaving campus to go downtown for lunch. It was a snowy December day. A car pulled out of a student lot and rammed into my car. The driver wasn't paying attention and failed to yield from the lot (and was charged by the police for failing to yield). I got out of my car, asked if they were "fucking stupid?" and strung off a few other f-bombs. This wasn't on university property, it was on a public street. There was AMAZINGLY no damage to my car (I think the snow on the road meant that he just plowed me a little ways down the road and spun me around.)

The next day I got called into the Dean's office and was asked if I swore at a student. I told him that I wouldn't answer any questions about ANYTHING I did off campus during non-work hours. The next day, the Dean, along with a witness, delivered me a "disciplinary letter" that was being placed in my personnel file for using profanity. I had to apply to have that letter removed from my file after 1 year. At that hearing, I had to swear that I had not used profanity in the presence of any students in the past 12 months.

Sure, teachers say "Sit your ass down" all the time. If they do, and someone complains, they will be written up for it (same with doctors, lawyers, veterinarians or any other professionals). If you don't believe that, then I suggest you ask a professional yourself. Do their codes of professional conduct say "no swearing"? No, that's the whole point. That conduct is UNDERSTOOD to be expected of a professional.

From the Ontario College of Teachers: http://www.oct.ca/octsitesearch/default ... =profanity -- disciplinary rulings for teachers' uses of profanity in Ontario. These are just the ones that get sent to the College of Teachers. Less serious complaints are dealt with by the principal and end up with teachers either receiving disciplinary letters in their personnel files or suspensions (yes, teachers can get suspended too).

If you truly think that teachers and doctors are allowed to swear and won't be disciplined if there's a complaint, then you're living in fantasy land. As I've shown, that can extend to circumstances well away from the classroom or hospital.

So, either cops are professionals or they aren't. I think highly enough of them that I think they ARE professionals. Or, maybe they're not professionals. Maybe they're just hired help like furniture movers, factroy grunts and swab-jockies. If that's what they are, then let them curse up a storm. But don't go telling me that professionals are allowed to swear, because I know from personal experience that we aren't.

Shepherdsdog Shepherdsdog:

You obviously fail to understand the context in which the language is used. A casual traffic stop wouldn't elicit that kind of language, a situation that requires immediate compliance due to life threatening circumstances could.

You are comparing two completely disparate situations based on an unusual personal experience. You yourself insinuate that this was a ridiculous situation that didn't elicit that kind of response. Neither would a doctor or a police officer warrant a similar reprimand.