[ridenrain]

I'm going to leave it at "agree to disagree".

[Thanos]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Nonsense. Cops are the salt of the earth. It feels pretty good to be able to tell my little ones (5 and 3) that if they are ever in trouble they can always trust a policeman or a policelady. I know there's barely a single cop out there who wouldn't put everyhting on the line for them, no matter what.

But, no disrespect intended, cops have to be asnwerable to the public. Killing distarught immigrants for wielding a stapler is simply not on. Nor is putting a bullet into teh back of the head of a guy caught drinking in public. Pile that on repeated episodes of cops covering up the wrongdoing of other cops in BC and you have erosion of public trust.

I think the powers that be--the municipalities, the RCMP brass, need to crack down here in BC anyways.

What Canada needs is a Special Investigations Unit like they have in Ontario; an independent body that investigates police-related deaths. If they clear the cops, the public can trust that it isn't some whitewash as if the police had investigated themselves. I agree that people don't tend to trust the police when they're in a conflict of interest; answer to the public about their buddies.

So, nip it in the bud. Then, all of the repeated hooplah that surrounds this stuff will go away. It has in Ontario anyway.

An independent investigative office is probably the way to go but, judging by the way some city councils and federal government offices operate, the difficulty them becomes on how to ensure that the police receive fair treatment. It's no secret to most that a lot of government, bureucratic, and judicial offices are infested with ideologues holding an anti-police agenda.

Personally, I'll stick with what I've believed all long. I'll take the side of the police over that of the dirtbags and their lawyers, and I'll especially believe the police instead of taking the cue of the professional distortion artists in the mass media.

[snuggles61]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Nonsense. Cops are the salt of the earth. It feels pretty good to be able to tell my little ones (5 and 3) that if they are ever in trouble they can always trust a policeman or a policelady. I know there's barely a single cop out there who wouldn't put everyhting on the line for them, no matter what.

But, no disrespect intended, cops have to be asnwerable to the public. Killing distarught immigrants for wielding a stapler is simply not on. Nor is putting a bullet into teh back of the head of a guy caught drinking in public. Pile that on repeated episodes of cops covering up the wrongdoing of other cops in BC and you have erosion of public trust.

I think the powers that be--the municipalities, the RCMP brass, need to crack down here in BC anyways.

What Canada needs is a Special Investigations Unit like they have in Ontario; an independent body that investigates police-related deaths. If they clear the cops, the public can trust that it isn't some whitewash as if the police had investigated themselves. I agree that people don't tend to trust the police when they're in a conflict of interest; answer to the public about their buddies.

So, nip it in the bud. Then, all of the repeated hooplah that surrounds this stuff will go away. It has in Ontario anyway.

Totally agree with you on this, I'm thinking a body such as the RCAF could deal with this.

[uwish]

Dayseed Dayseed:

uwish uwish:

I am not sure what you are talking about.

but while your driveling get me a coffee.

I know you're not sure about that which I talk. That's the constant leitmotif in your posts. You're stupid. You got whooped horribly, completely and all you could do is pimp away with a two sentence rejoinder. Wait, you did it again!

Want more proof of your full-retardedness? Remember when you harped about spelling? You spelled "you're" incorrectly you idiot.

you sound like Derby when pushed into a corner. I find inferior intellect usually results in personal attacks, name calling and general mental breakdowns.

You can share a tissue with Derby.

[Zipperfish]

uwish uwish:

Dayseed Dayseed:

uwish uwish:

I am not sure what you are talking about.

but while your driveling get me a coffee.

I know you're not sure about that which I talk. That's the constant leitmotif in your posts. You're stupid. You got whooped horribly, completely and all you could do is pimp away with a two sentence rejoinder. Wait, you did it again!

Want more proof of your full-retardedness? Remember when you harped about spelling? You spelled "you're" incorrectly you idiot.

you sound like Derby when pushed into a corner. I find inferior intellect usually results in personal attacks, name calling and general mental breakdowns.

You can share a tissue with Derby.

[DerbyX]

uwish uwish:

Dayseed Dayseed:

uwish uwish:

I am not sure what you are talking about.

but while your driveling get me a coffee.

I know you're not sure about that which I talk. That's the constant leitmotif in your posts. You're stupid. You got whooped horribly, completely and all you could do is pimp away with a two sentence rejoinder. Wait, you did it again!

Want more proof of your full-retardedness? Remember when you harped about spelling? You spelled "you're" incorrectly you idiot.

you sound like Derby when pushed into a corner. I find inferior intellect usually results in personal attacks, name calling and general mental breakdowns.

You can share a tissue with Derby.

This from the person that launched attack after attack on boots calling him a facist pinko commie?

Owned by Dayseed and owned by me. Don't worry, you are in a select group.

[uwish]

I never said facist pinko commie

and the only people who seem to think anyone was owned on here are you two.

[DerbyX]

Oh? What names did you call Boots then (all the while bitching about everybody else calling people names)?

Shuffle on Macduff. You got Owned, or Pwned as Zip illustrated.

[uwish]

lets see another article about that little attack from someone with some qualification to comment shall we?

Palango provided evidence beyond a reasonable doubt in support of his thesis. The heart of the story, as both former RCMP inspector Bill Majcher and Dorothy Franklin, a former director of law enforcement in the federal Solicitor General's office, said: "the RCMP is a cult." At the centre of any cult is the oath. An ordinary cop swears allegiance to the sovereign or to Canada, but the RCMP oath "is essentially an oath of allegiance to the RCMP." That makes the Mounties unique. "There is no police force like it in the world, and for good reason."

Two accounts stand out. The first occurred to the unfortunate Dziekanski (you can watch it on YouTube). Police self-defence instructor Robbie Cressman said "one properly trained officer" could have handled the situation at the Vancouver International Airport. Instead, one finds "an excellent example of improper training and the application of that poor training." The four horsemen of Dziekanski's apocalypse "did nothing right." Not a single procedure in the National Use of Force Framework protocol was followed.
But then, a Singapore Air-lines jumbo jet had just arrived and the airport wanted the area closed. Zap! No wonder the locals started throwing eggs at RCMP cruisers.


from this article.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/new ... dce32189e5

[uwish]

Perhaps dayseed is a police self defence instructor??

mmmm perhaps not

what's that quote again that my initial referral of the use of force?

"Instead, one finds "an excellent example of improper training and the application of that poor training." The four horsemen of Dziekanski's apocalypse "did nothing right." Not a single procedure in the National Use of Force Framework protocol was followed."

who was 'owned'? Dayseed rants on to everyone with a different opinion that his that they are 'armchair quarterbacks' I think a person like this instructor, would be qualified to make comment. I can also add, this isn't the only person of qualification that has made these comments. That was the basis of my initial comment that the use of force matrix was not followed.

And I do not think you even need to know the use of force matrix after watching that video, ask 90% of the general population and I think they would agree that a taser was not justified in that encounter.

[HyperionTheEvil]

I've looked at the tape an frankly idont see the problem here. A disturbed man is throwing items around, being vioelnt, and at one point threatens a woman with a chair while looking right at her.

the RCMP did the right thing, his personal issues are not the issue, his threat to the safety of others is.

[DerbyX]

http://www.straight.com/article-119165/ ... aser-video

Sure, lets blame the cops who when responding to reports of an extremely violent man in an international airport, a man who could have had a bomb strapped to his body or hidden on his person, used a (what they were trained to think) non-lethal technique.

This is as good a summation as yours:

$1:

I'm writing about the taser incident at YVR. This subject has created a lot of conversation at home and work and I needed to get something off my chest.

Why is it that we choose to vilify our police at every opportunity possible? These men and women do a job that most Canadians don't want to do, nor could do. They put their lives in danger on a daily basis, deal with junkies, murderers, rapists, and the like. They are sworn at, spit on and physically assaulted. And to top it all off, they are rarely, if ever thanked.

Sharing the news with this YVR story are two separate stories of RCMP officers who have been killed on duty in the last month--showing the grim reality of the job. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a police officers job to take abuse, be assaulted or killed on the job. But it happens. Most of the time it is an event that happens in the blink of an eye. An officer has a split second to react to a situation that could result in his or her death. This is something that 90% of the public doesn't come close to dealing with. If the average Canadian doesn't react in time at work the worst thing that happens is missing the FedEx truck.

So I ask again, why is it that when police respond to a situation where a man is throwing computer parts and chairs INSIDE an international airport and react using the tools they are given and trained to use that we automatically jump on them and condemn them?

These officers used a tool designed for the exact situation in which it was used. The officers told the man to stop and get down. They were obviously police, yet Dziekanski walked away ignoring them. I have traveled the world. Airports are confusing when you are in a foreign country. No matter what, I'm on my best behavior. And no matter how frustrated, jet lagged or exhausted, it would take me 3 seconds to recognize a police officer in any country on this planet. As for the gesture to stop, it is the same no matter where you live or language you speak.

These officers used the taser to get this man to the ground. They used it so that they did not have to put their lives at risk. Yes, they could have used pepper spray, but this in an international airport with a in-coming flight. Imagine the panic and chaos caused when 300 people get off a plane into a cloud of pepper spray. Yes they could have physically taken him down. They out numbered him. But what is to say Dziekanski wasn't high, armed, or infected with HIV. These are the real risks of getting into a physical confrontation. I have seen officers try to take a person down by force. A person who was outnumbered, but who got the upper hand. Officers get shot with their own guns when over powered. Why is it OK for the officer's life to be put at risk when it doesn't have to be?

The taser is a non-lethal tool. On some occasions it does kill. This is unfortunate, but a reality. This event is an unfortunate accident, but an accident. Just because some tourist at an airport takes a video, doesn't make him an expert on police procedure, and that goes for the majority of people that I have seen on Canadian TV giving their two bits after watching this tape. This story has made it to a reputable US news station and guess what? They had a taser instructor (a real expert) saying the event is unfortunate but would be handled in much the same way as in the US, and that the police simply used a tool on their tool belt.

The police were called to an international airport to respond to a man who was throwing computers and chairs in a security zone; a man who ignored their gestures and commands to stop. These officers reacted in an appropriate manner with the safety of travelers and themselves in mind. But in a knee jerk reaction everyone condemns them.

My heart goes out to the mother of Robert Dziekanski, but it also goes out to the officers who did their job and used non-lethal force only to have a man die. I'm sure they are feeling horrible as a result of this incident... and even worse knowing the public they have chosen to protect has once again turned on them.

You don't act like he did in a foreign airport no matter what. His behaviour is why he is dead. His behaviour was the reason this happened and this is nothing more then drunks blaming the bar for serving them when their decision to drive drunk ends up killing somebody.

[HyperionTheEvil]

DerbyX DerbyX:

http://www.straight.com/article-119165/the-robert-dziekanski-taser-video

Sure, lets blame the cops who when responding to reports of an extremely violent man in an international airport, a man who could have had a bomb strapped to his body or hidden on his person, used a (what they were trained to think) non-lethal technique.

This is as good a summation as yours:

$1:

I'm writing about the taser incident at YVR. This subject has created a lot of conversation at home and work and I needed to get something off my chest.

................, but it also goes out to the officers who did their job and used non-lethal force only to have a man die. I'm sure they are feeling horrible as a result of this incident... and even worse knowing the public they have chosen to protect has once again turned on them.

You don't act like he did in a foreign airport no matter what. His behaviour is why he is dead. His behaviour was the reason this happened and this is nothing more then drunks blaming the bar for serving them when their decision to drive drunk ends up killing somebody.

Good god, we agree on something.

*Hyp patiently waits for the Four Horseman to show up*

[uwish]

Derby the only difference in my selection of an article as you like to point out is the person offering the opinion isn't just an armchair quarterback.

And as I have indicated, his opinion on the incident is not alone among his peers. If you are looking for someone to comment on the use of force etc which, evidentially my comments inflamed Dayseed who freely admitted he will always defend the police, then I am getting the information right from the sources of those who are qualified.

And I agree with your comments to a point, you don't act like that in a foreign airport, and yes his behaviour was the reason this happened. But that doesn't absolve the conduct of the police.

[HyperionTheEvil]

uwish uwish:

Derby the only difference in my selection of an article as you like to point out is the person offering the opinion isn't just an armchair quarterback.

And as I have indicated, his opinion on the incident is not alone among his peers. If you are looking for someone to comment on the use of force etc which, evidentially my comments inflamed Dayseed who freely admitted he will always defend the police, then I am getting the information right from the sources of those who are qualified.

And I agree with your comments to a point, you don't act like that in a foreign airport, and yes his behaviour was the reason this happened. But that doesn't absolve the conduct of the police.

I underlined this for a reason. People are taking shots at the RCMP because the guy died. What people seem to forget that the man was vioelent, aggresive and beligerant. Police are there to protect the public from harm, and to do so with as little risk to others and themselves as possible, so again i dont see the problem. It seems that that some people want law enforcement to show up with flowers and chocolates everytime they face someone who is violent.

the conduct of the RCMP in this case is perfectly fine and they did their jobs. They protected the public, and themselves. The man died because of a chain events that began when he started throwing items and threatening people. I don't care what country you're from or going to. Acting violently in any airport is a sure ticket to get yourself in a huge mess of pain.