[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/both_are_right

I beg to differ. Beave's link was describing:

$1:

Neutral to earth voltage (NEV) specifically refers to a difference in potential between a locally grounded object and the grounded return conductor, or neutral, of an electrical system.

'Voltage' cannot flow without a conductor, and the voltage in power lines is specifically chosen so that it cannot use air (even humid air) as the conductor. Tower design prevents the tower from doing this as well.

Whereas, even in his article it describes:

$1:

Induced voltages

Classical electromagnetic induction can occur when long conductors form an open grounded loop under and parallel to transmission or distribution lines. In these cases, current is induced in the loop when a person makes contact with it and ground. Since this involves real current flow, it is potentially hazardous. This type of induced current occurs most often on long fences and distribution lines built under high-power transmission lines.[8][9]

Which can only occur with the magnetic field that power lines generate. I spent all that time with 72 virgins and all I gots was an engineering degree.

So I maintain, with respect to power lines, 'stray voltage' isn't a thing.

That doesn’t seem to br what my link says:

$1:

Stray voltage is defined as "A voltage resulting from the normal delivery and/or use of electricity (usually smaller than 10 volts) that may be present between two conductive surfaces that can be simultaneously contacted by members of the general public and/or their animals. Stray voltage is caused by primary and/or secondary return current, and power system induced currents, as these currents flow through the impedance of the intended return pathway, its parallel conductive pathways, and conductive loops in close proximity to the power system. Stray voltage is not related to power system faults, and is generally not considered hazardous."[1]

It slso seems to say the induced voltage your refer to is sometimes considered a type of stray voltage

[herbie]

The stray voltage you're thinking of is probably bad grounds. You've heard of the odd dog frying itself pissing in a telephone pole, and we used to carry a tool we called 'the yellow dildo' to check shared poles before we climbed them.
The outside skin of a windmill would be well grounded and the power it generates would travel nowhere near the skin and definitely not to ground. Over where the collector grid that ties several together, there's a tiny chance.

But as I've mentioned repeatedly, WTF is Ford's alternative? It's 2018, they should've had a Green Energy Plan in their platform it's like two decades late to start thinking of one.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

That doesn’t seem to br what my link says:

$1:

Stray voltage is defined as "A voltage resulting from the normal delivery and/or use of electricity (usually smaller than 10 volts) that may be present between two conductive surfaces that can be simultaneously contacted by members of the general public and/or their animals. Stray voltage is caused by primary and/or secondary return current, and power system induced currents, as these currents flow through the impedance of the intended return pathway, its parallel conductive pathways, and conductive loops in close proximity to the power system. Stray voltage is not related to power system faults, and is generally not considered hazardous."[1]

It slso seems to say the induced voltage your refer to is sometimes considered a type of stray voltage

But it still requires a conductor. This cannot occur under power lines.

herbie herbie:

The stray voltage you're thinking of is probably bad grounds. You've heard of the odd dog frying itself pissing in a telephone pole, and we used to carry a tool we called 'the yellow dildo' to check shared poles before we climbed them.
The outside skin of a windmill would be well grounded and the power it generates would travel nowhere near the skin and definitely not to ground. Over where the collector grid that ties several together, there's a tiny chance.

Which is exactly what his article described. Potential between the neutral and ground of a high voltage circuit causing a potential between two grounded surfaces, with one having the bad ground.

[llama66]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But it still requires a conductor. This cannot occur under power lines.

Can it not move like lightning?

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But it still requires a conductor. This cannot occur under power lines.

Can it not move like lightning?

The voltage chosen to run through high voltage power lines is a balance between the need to overcome the losses due to resistance, and the tendency for voltage to find any path to ground given enough force. The higher the voltage, the lower the loss due to resistance, but the more likely it will act like lightning.

The voltage that power lines run at is low enough that it will never arc through the air, but high enough that the lines themselves don't heat up and waste electricity. And the shortest path it has through the air is the six feet from it's insulator to the tower holding it up. So even if you are standing under it, there isn't enough force in the electricity to bridge the distance from the lines to the ground. You'd have to be between the wires and the tower, you having less resistance than the insulator.

But the power in the lines still generates a large magnetic field, so you can use that field to create an electric current in other things. Like a closed loop fence sitting under the power lines, or a fluorescent tube.

[PluggyRug]

Doc's correct on this. A fluctuating (moving) magnetic field such as 60hz AC will induce a voltage into a nearby conductor (if there is current flowing in the primary conductor). So it's not so much stray voltage but rather induced voltage.

[llama66]

There is a reason I failed Electro.

[bootlegga]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Like the people who think power lines wayyyy over their head affect them, but buried 6 feet underground aren't a problem.

I'm sure you'll post a link saying there isn't much difference, but I do like having six feet of earth between me and the wires, instead of 30 feet of air...kind of like how I prefer six feet of earth between me and radiation in a fallout shelter.

https://inhabitat.com/man-buries-42-sch ... t-shelter/

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

There is a reason I failed Electro.

Shocking!

[raydan]

I see what you did there.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Like the people who think power lines wayyyy over their head affect them, but buried 6 feet underground aren't a problem.

I'm sure you'll post a link saying there isn't much difference, but I do like having six feet of earth between me and the wires, instead of 30 feet of air...kind of like how I prefer six feet of earth between me and radiation in a fallout shelter.

https://inhabitat.com/man-buries-42-sch ... t-shelter/

No link required, you already posess the information needed. Ionizing radiation is not the same a electromagnetic radiation.

The Earth has a gigantonormous magnetic field that pretty much passes through everything, including those buses. Ionizing radiation can be stopped by a piece of paper (Alpha waves)

You might not know, but should recall from school, that photons follow the Inverse Square law. Therefore you will experience a stronger magnetic field at 6 feet versus 30 feet, given the same power level.

And in any case, the power lines magnetic field is nothing compared to Earths', which you experience all the time.

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

I see what you did there.

[llama66]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

There is a reason I failed Electro.

Shocking!

Ohm.... Ohm.... I will not give in to your taunts. I must show resistance.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

llama66 llama66:

There is a reason I failed Electro.

Shocking!

Ohm.... Ohm.... I will not give in to your taunts. I must show resistance.

[DrCaleb]

If anyone cares, I did find a study of Magnetic Field attenuation for various type of soil composition by the US Corp of Army Engineers. tl;dr: Field frequency is affected by soil type that had more iron or iron oxide, and moisture. But it does not attenuate very much, especially at low frequencies like 60hZ.

$1:

The initial effort at developing EM power attenuation prediction models
involved numerous attempts to perform multiple parameter linear regression
analyses of the ERDC data. These efforts, which met with no success, focused
on trying to develop predictive models for each soil classification at set
frequencies, a single sample temperature, and utilizing moisture content and bulk
density as input parameters. Data charts were shown in Chapter 3 that clearly
demonstrated that soil type could not be used to consistently or definitively
predict EM power attenuation. Similar charts revealed that neither sample
density nor sample temperature provided any data clustering when all of the soil
types were displayed on a single chart.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a437109.pdf