[CharlesAnthony]

Until the professional liars have the balls to put their bullshit fake political-science policy confusions to a vote, the only attention they deserve comes from a pie in the face.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

So, why do you think that I advocate cleaning it up so they don't have to? I'll be dead long before any effects get to bad. I don't have to give a shit. Check.

OK. Put your propositions to a referendum vote at the next election.

[DrCaleb]

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

Until the professional liars have the balls to put their bullshit fake political-science policy confusions to a vote, the only attention they deserve comes from a pie in the face.

Science is not a debate. Come with facts, or stay home.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Science is not a debate.

Only if you come up with satisfactory proofs that can be independently reproduced.

Even then the proofs that are often offered by scientists frequently fall apart under scrutiny and while you're outraged reading this and thinking I'm insulting AGW cultists (and I am ) I'm also citing the utterly biased scientists who 'prove' the safety and efficiency of the latest products from the pharmaceutical industry.

Hey, Thalidomide is a great anti-nausea medication for pregnant women! The science is in! It's settled!

Or would you care to debate the findings of the scientists who assured everyone how safe it was?

[CharlesAnthony]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

Until the professional liars have the balls to put their bullshit fake political-science policy confusions to a vote, the only attention they deserve comes from a pie in the face.

Science is not a debate. Come with facts, or stay home.

Come with balls or stay home.

Put your bullshit to a vote. Afraid of democracy?? Let us see if your magic tricks can fool 50% of the population!

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Science is not a debate.

Only if you come up with satisfactory proofs that can be independently reproduced.

If only I could get you to remember when I show you this exact thing, nine or ten times.

http://berkeleyearth.org/summary-of-findings/

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Even then the proofs that are often offered by scientists frequently fall apart under scrutiny and while you're outraged reading this and thinking I'm insulting AGW cultists (and I am ) I'm also citing the utterly biased scientists who 'prove' the safety and efficiency of the latest products from the pharmaceutical industry.

You are also assuming one is exactly the same as the others. Is every cop bad? Does every Doctor abuse their patients?

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Hey, Thalidomide is a great anti-nausea medication for pregnant women! The science is in! It's settled!

Or would you care to debate the findings of the scientists who assured everyone how safe it was?

And hiring scientists to prove the outcome you want, regardless of facts, is an old trick to industry. Just ask Phillip Morris.

[DrCaleb]

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

CharlesAnthony CharlesAnthony:

Until the professional liars have the balls to put their bullshit fake political-science policy confusions to a vote, the only attention they deserve comes from a pie in the face.

Science is not a debate. Come with facts, or stay home.

Come with balls or stay home.

Put your bullshit to a vote. Afraid of democracy?? Let us see if your magic tricks can fool 50% of the population!

Let me see your facts. I've shown you mine, now show me yours. We'll see if yours show the conclusions you think they do. And we'll put them to a vote, once we've established policy to fit those facts.

What I'm looking for, to start, is; an explanation for time zones and why there is no timezone that is not continuous with the last, and; an picture of the edge of the Earth.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And hiring scientists to prove the outcome you want, regardless of facts, is an old trick to industry. Just ask Phillip Morris.

I just sent him a PM about that and he replied.

Phillip Morris Phillip Morris:

I would never do such a thing. Research proves that smoking is part of a healthy and active lifestyle!

Phillip Morris Phillip Morris:

*coff* *coff*

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

What I'm looking for, to start, is; an explanation for time zones and why there is no timezone that is not continuous with the last, and; an picture of the edge of the Earth.

Here's my question: If you stand on the North Pole what time zone are you in?

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

What I'm looking for, to start, is; an explanation for time zones and why there is no timezone that is not continuous with the last, and; an picture of the edge of the Earth.

Here's my question: If you stand on the North Pole what time zone are you in?

All of them.

[Coach85]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, they will not occur if we are not here. As pointed out, the rate of change of atmospheric CO2 is never seen before, except in the extreme events such as a volcanic eruption. And even then, not at this rate of change, and the evidence is directly related to burning fossil fuel.

Nothing else on Earth burns fossil fuel.

Climate on Earth will still change whether humans are here or not. History and science have told us that.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yes, we do. How bad its going to be and how soon is the only debate left.

This is the crux of your whole point which contradicts itself. You speak with certainty and then finish with two unknowns.

As you've stated, we don't know how much time all of these schemes will buy us nor do we know how bad it will be if we don't do anything.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Given the level of denial around here, show me the political will to change without being forced to change. Humans are a fickle creature. We don't plan well for the future longer than a season, we don't like the uncertainty required in planning for things on a global environmental scale, and we don't like to do something if it's going to cost us.

Over the last 20 years, without a carbon tax, we've made massive strides in energy consumption. We've reduced our emissions too. People were willing to shell out $9-$10 for an LED bulb when they first came out and it pushed the market into affordability. People are willing to swap out old toilets for ones that use less water. The list does on. So many programs to help buy things that are energy efficient, all without a new tax or scheme.

We're willing to make these changes for two reasons. 1. It helps the environment. 2. It saves us money in the long run. It has an end game. A tangible outcome that can be measured in dollars.

[Tricks]

Coach85 Coach85:

Over the last 20 years, without a carbon tax, we've made massive strides in energy consumption. We've reduced our emissions too. People were willing to shell out $9-$10 for an LED bulb when they first came out and it pushed the market into affordability. People are willing to swap out old toilets for ones that use less water. The list does on. So many programs to help buy things that are energy efficient, all without a new tax or scheme.

We're willing to make these changes for two reasons. 1. It helps the environment. 2. It saves us money in the long run. It has an end game. A tangible outcome that can be measured in dollars.

Except a lot of that was legislated. The incandescent is banned. Anything less than 90% efficient furnaces are banned. High water usage toilets are banned. Building codes are updated to be more efficient. It wasn't necessarily the will of the citizens. So it's less "they are willing" and more "they don't have a choice". I sold furnaces for a little while and met plenty of people who would have bought another mid efficiency furnace if they could. People who were mad at me because they could pump r-12 refrigerant into their A/C anymore because it's banned. Light bulbs too, there are plenty of people who bitch about having to use LED/CFL. Entirely anecdotal for sure though.

[herbie]

Here's my rebuttal.
Who the fuck cares if it's natural, it's going to fuck things up. So stop coming up with reasons NOT to do the least you can about it. We can't stop a volcano from spewing CO2, but we're able to control what WE do.

[martin14]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Hey, Thalidomide is a great anti-nausea medication for pregnant women! The science is in! It's settled!

Or would you care to debate the findings of the scientists who assured everyone how safe it was?

And hiring scientists to prove the outcome you want, regardless of facts, is an old trick to industry. Just ask Phillip Morris.

Always interesting to see how easy we can slam the
Philip Morris or Thalidomide 'scientists' being part of industry,


and yet so quick to swallow the Global Warming TM 'scientists' in its' entirety,
without question.

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

No, they will not occur if we are not here. As pointed out, the rate of change of atmospheric CO2 is never seen before, except in the extreme events such as a volcanic eruption. And even then, not at this rate of change, and the evidence is directly related to burning fossil fuel.

Nothing else on Earth burns fossil fuel.

Climate on Earth will still change whether humans are here or not. History and science have told us that.

But history has not told us how bad things will be given the current rate of change.

Coach85 Coach85:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yes, we do. How bad its going to be and how soon is the only debate left.

This is the crux of your whole point which contradicts itself. You speak with certainty and then finish with two unknowns.

As you've stated, we don't know how much time all of these schemes will buy us nor do we know how bad it will be if we don't do anything.

There is no contradiction, we simply have no previous information on which to base the future. We know it will be bad, we just don't know how bad or when.

But it will happen, most likely in our grandchildren's lifetime. But we can stop it now, if we choose to.

[CharlesAnthony]

martin14 martin14:

and yet so quick to swallow the Global Warming TM 'scientists' in its' entirety,
without question.

There is hope!
Young kids are better at recognizing bad acting than we ever were. They are better at tying loose ends. Kids are figuring out the information war without adult help. It starts with Reefer Madness and then they learn that rope is traditionally made from hemp.

There is rope!!