[OnTheIce]

I answered your question. No wonder you couldn't cut it as a postie, you can't read!

When I answered your question, I asked you what you did for work. A question you ignored. Without an answer, I'll just assume being a postal worker was your career best.

[smorgdonkey]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I answered your question. No wonder you couldn't cut it as a postie, you can't read!

When I answered your question, I asked you what you did for work. A question you ignored. Without an answer, I'll just assume being a postal worker was your career best.

It's not on my monitor.

Keep assuming - it's what you do best.

[2Cdo]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

For those who think postal workers are overpaid due to them needing no education: have you aways felt that way about oilfield workers? They make twice and three times what postal workers make and they require no education.

There's a ton of different courses that are required to work in the oil and gas industry if you want to advance beyond the bottom rung, plus the little fact that the time spent on shift (12 hours/day) and the degree of danger aren't even in the same ballpark.

There's also NO union to protect lazy useless workers like yourself.

[Winnipegger]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

For those who think postal workers are overpaid due to them needing no education:

glassdoor: Canada Post Salaries

$1:

Letter Carrier - Hourly ... Average $24.23 hourly, Min $17 - Max $26
Based on 27 employee salaries

Letter Carrier ... $52,551 per year, Min $46k - Max $81k
Based on 17 employee salaries

I earned less as a senior software developer in 2006/'07 in Winnipeg. Earned a little more in Toronto in 1987/'90, and significantly more as a contractor in Miami, Florida. Sure, Winnipeg is cheap, but still! And I took computer science in university. I have gotten jobs delivering newspapers, so I have an idea what it's like to go door-to-door. It's not worth that much.

[smorgdonkey]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

There's also NO union to protect lazy useless workers like yourself.

The height of ignorance is to make a comment like that about someone who you know nothing about.


I did oilfield work too and the letter carrier gig was harder. Try 15 km per day carrying 20 pounds and up plus doing 3000 stairs.

I laugh at lazy and your ass would be dragged.


Winnipegger...everyone under $60 000 per year is under paid.

Postal workers'hourly rate in '87 was about $12 or $13 in 06/07 it was about $22.

[Winnipegger]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Winnipegger...everyone under $60 000 per year is under paid.

Postal workers'hourly rate in '87 was about $12 or $13 in 06/07 it was about $22.

So in 2006/'07 when I was paid $38k plus full benefits, I was underpaid. Ok. So give me a job over $60k. I have been a software developer since February 1981, I was Information Specialist (PA4) at the City of Winnipeg department of Social Services, kept the mainframe computer running until the department closed its doors. The province absorbed the city department. I was technical architect for the year 2000 project management office of MTS (Manitoba Telecom Services, formerly Manitoba Telephone System). I could continue with a my resume, but you get the idea. I'm unemployed and looking for work. Currently have a home-based business repairing computers, and have a temporary job working as a Census enumerator (June and July only).

You mention the '80s. I was an 18-year-old youth in 1980, worked on the setup crew for the Winnipeg Convention Centre. I set up tables, chairs, and portable walls for various events. Paid $3.60/hour; minimum wage was $3.15 from January 1980, $3.35 from March 1981, and $3.55 from September 1981. In July 1982 minimum wage was increased to $4.00/hour. You claim postal workers in '87 were paid $12 or $13/hour, and in 2006/'07 it was about $22/hour? And you still think that's not over-paid?

[herbie]

Oh jeez you work in the industry that invented "Tony from Windows" and BanglaDesh help centers where they earn $2 soon as they clicked -resolved- and you're underpaid?
FFS man, I trained kids that have grabbed better IT jobs than that and bailed into early retirement cuz my wallet already saw the end coming in the field.
Bad example to use. 21st century Buggy Whip Makers Guild

The women who clean your house here want $20 - $25 an hour. Kid came by and offered to cut my lawn with my own lawnmower for $30, shit it costs $10 to buy enough tokens to wash your car yourself these days.
The 16 yr old girl who served our table at the smorg makes $13 hr plus tips and dressed like a fat crack ho. Her first day on the job griping about the shitty pay and thinking it would make us tip better!

[smorgdonkey]

I am not saying that everyone should make $60 thou per year but minimum wage should not be a wage that is impossible to live on. Everything should be scaled up.

Henry Ford realized back when he started that the people building the cars on his line couldn't afford to buy them. I believe he increased their pay so that they could.

The labour movement got wages and benefits to increase for unionized workers and dragged many other jobs' wages up with them. The economy is strongest when there is a strong and numerous middle class.

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

In July 1982 minimum wage was increased to $4.00/hour. You claim postal workers in '87 were paid $12 or $13/hour, and in 2006/'07 it was about $22/hour? And you still think that's not over-paid?

I know. I made $4.00 per hour in 1986.

In 2006/2007 the postal system made profit and was extremely top heavy (it still is). To get hired as a postal worker you have to keep your phone with you (or sit by one if you aren't carrying a cell) and accept hours pretty much any time they call. If casual workers turn down a certain number of calls they cease to be called. You remain casual for years. Years. If you can outlast that, you get to be part time for years. Years.

There are overpaid people there alright ...the overpaid people are in management.

[2Cdo]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

There's also NO union to protect lazy useless workers like yourself.

The height of ignorance is to make a comment like that about someone who you know nothing about.


I did oilfield work too and the letter carrier gig was harder. Try 15 km per day carrying 20 pounds and up plus doing 3000 stairs.

I laugh at lazy and your ass would be dragged.


Winnipegger...everyone under $60 000 per year is under paid.

Postal workers'hourly rate in '87 was about $12 or $13 in 06/07 it was about $22.

You post the funniest shit I've read on this site! If you found being a postie was harder I honestly doubt you did any work in the oil patch for more than 1 shift.

As far as "dragging ass" doing a posties job.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

The unions may not be the main factor for the boom, but they certainly were the factor that led to the boom being shared more equally with workers (unlike our recent booms) and workers having decent working conditions and protections. Which people take for granted now, and think that the "job givers" will continue to treat workers well. Since the "job givers" are taking more and more of the profits for themselves while shipping jobs to the most scummy places they can find as far as worker exploitation, that doesn't seem to be working out.

Unions were a factor in sharing the boom, but again they weren't the only one. The high tax rates of the post war period, coupled with the scale of the boom (plenty of go around for everyone) and even the Cold War fostered a common goal that everyone was in it together to fight Communism were also major factors in the sharing of the boom.

Nowadays, there is no common goal other than getting stinking rich, by either exploiting others or or exploiting yourself (reality TV).

[OnTheIce]

This is 2016 people. It's time to wake up.

Unions, by and large, are self-serving political organizations that do little for workers these days but take money from their pay check to support their own internal bureaucracy and special interests.

This isn't the early 1900's. This isn't the 60's. Much of what the Unions of those eras fought for is now law and we thank them for that.

We need to wake up. We have laws over safety, employment standards and pay that are in place today and unions aren't stopping companies from seeking labour in markets where it's cheaper.

[smorgdonkey]

Without unions, all of those laws would be eroded away. They aren't good enough anyway. I heard a call in show about the Canada Labour Code and every caller who spoke in the entire show told of how bad they were done wrong at the hands of a company governed by the CLC.

Remember Westray? It was a coal mine in Pictou County near Stellarton, Nova Scotia. The safety violations going on in that mine were unreal. They fired anyone who was rumoured to be working toward trying to unionize. 26 miners died when that mine exploded. This was the 1990s not the 1890s.

Government loves corporations and corporations love money...they will do anything to get more money. If they have to take from, steal from, or endanger the workers to make more money, they will.

[rickc]

A couple of thoughts on this thread. The post office is a dying industry. They are artificially being kept alive. I can't remember the last time I used one. Every 10 years I visit one to pick up a passport application. You have to blow off half a days work to accomplish even that. Industries come and go. Its a fact of life. The cargo container killed the longshoreman. The truck and plane killed the railroad. The inkjet killed the printing industry. So it goes.

We have grown to have contempt for people who have defined benefit pensions. I have been guilty of it as well. The truth of the matter is the death of the defined benefit pension has been one of the worst things to happen to workers in North America. What was wrong with having a certain amount of stability in the workplace and retirement? People gave their lives for the company. They came in on their days off, worked overtime, moved to other cities as needed. The companies prospered, and they had loyal employees as a result. People cared about their company. They had pride in their jobs. They willingly gave up thier lives for some job stability and a promise of retirement. Who has benefitted from the death of the defined benefit pension, and the rise of the 401k? Stockbrokers mainly. They charge commissions for handling the money in your retirement accounts. The invention of the 401k was a boon for the financial industry. Companies prospered. They don't owe you jack shit for all the time you spent building their business. You don't even get a golden watch any more. Retirement after 30 years at a company used to be a big deal. It would get a write up in the paper. They would hire a hall for a party. Now security escorts you to your car to make sure you aren't stealing anything. Most people are not equipped to handle their retirement account. They know nothing about the markets. Even people who know what they are doing can lose thousands when there is a sudden downturn in the markets. Better hope you are not near retirement when that happens. Companies have contempt for their employees, and I don't give a fuck about my employer. If I seen the building on fire after I clocked out, I would just keep on walking. Fuck em. Thats the mentality that most of us have in corporate America these days. I'm a number on an accounting sheet, and they are a paycheck and nothing else. We should not be angry at people who have defined benefit retirement plans, we should be demanding their return to the workplace.

We can debate what role unions had in the post war boom, but I do not think that there is any debate that the decline of unions in North America has led to a decline in the standard of living. We do not live as well as we used to. When I was a kid my dads job payed enough money for my mother to be a stay at home mom, (after they divorced she had to take a job at night, and me and my sister became latch key kids). Life was better when one parent worked. There was more free time, less stress, we ate better and we ate together. Parents actually raised their own kids. People knew their neighbors. Kids played outside, they rode their bikes to school. Unions allowed one parent to bring home enough money to support a family. Who has that these days? You had better be a Dr. or lawyer to be a one income family these days. We all work, different shifts sometimes. We are always tired. We spend hours a day commuting to our jobs chasing a buck. Strangers raise our kids. We order out for dinner. We argue over who is going to stop and pick up dinner. We spend our days off work doing the chores that did not get done during the work week because we are to tired. Just shopping at Walmart on your day off sucks the life out of you. The people in the unions had good health and dental benefits for free. Now we get crappy insurance that no one wants to take, high deductibles, and higher co payments. Corporate pfofits keep going up. Workers standards of living are going down.

If you think that laws have replaced the need for unions, you might be surprised at how little rights you actually have. I was working a job in Mass. They wanted me to work 12 hour days six days a week. I was doing it because I needed the money. One day I was in an accident on the highway that totaled my car on the way to work. The next day the boss was telling me how I owed the company 12 hours labor, and I was going to have to make it up somehow. Now this was Mass. The peoples republic of Mass. Home of the Kennedy's. I called the labor board and they told me that the company could require me to work as many hours as they wish. The only laws were overtime pay at 1.5 over 40 hours, and one day off a week. Sunday if it was a manufacturing facility. Thats it. No laws saying you get paid holidays or overtime for working holidays. No laws against the employer changing your shift at will, or calling you in on your day off. No laws concerning paid vacations or sick days. None, absolutely zero. If its that fucked up in a bastion of left wing ideology like Mass, it can only get worse from there. I got fired from that shitty job for refusing to make up my time that I supposedly owed the company. So don't tell me the law has your back on the job because they don't. If you are not in a union you have next to no rights on the job. They can fire you because they do not like your haircut. They can cut your hours and pay whenever they please. You have no say in the cost of your benefits, or the employers contributions to your retirement plan. They don't have to give you a dime. They don't have to recognize seniority. The bosses nephew can take your job any time they want to give it to him. I say America works best when they say "Union Yes". The CEO's in the boardroom all have contracts spelling out their pay and benefits. Why shouldn't the workers have a contract as well?

[smorgdonkey]

Lots of insight in your post.

rickc rickc:

The post office is a dying industry. They are artificially being kept alive.

Simply not true. Every time I go to one there is a line up. People in small businesses are shipping and large businesses are shipping. The products have shifted to parcels from mail but there is still a significant amount of mail being sent too. The post office is a growing industry because they already have the infrastructure in every location in the country to service it all.

They should start with the postal banking because many rural people who have to drive lengthy periods to visit a 'big bank' would use the postal banks. The corporation won't do it though - they aren't really interested in forward thought. Their philosophy is "just keep everything like it is and keep taking our big salaries & bonuses".

As for the main body of your post, I agree. When average people have money, they spend it. Many spend all of it and the rest spend most of it. That fuels an economy. The pitchforks are coming.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ats-108014

[OnTheIce]

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Without unions, all of those laws would be eroded away. They aren't good enough anyway.

That's your opinion which holds little weight. Union membership has been steadily in decline in Canada and yet, employment laws haven't been eroded at all.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

I heard a call in show about the Canada Labour Code and every caller who spoke in the entire show told of how bad they were done wrong at the hands of a company governed by the CLC.

I'm sure there are businesses out there that treat their employees unfairly. Just as there are union shops that do the exact same.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Remember Westray? It was a coal mine in Pictou County near Stellarton, Nova Scotia. The safety violations going on in that mine were unreal. They fired anyone who was rumoured to be working toward trying to unionize. 26 miners died when that mine exploded. This was the 1990s not the 1890s.

Accidents happen to this day in unionized environments. Accidents and safety issues aren't exclusive to non-union staffed businesses.

smorgdonkey smorgdonkey:

Government loves corporations and corporations love money...they will do anything to get more money. If they have to take from, steal from, or endanger the workers to make more money, they will.

Just as unions and their leadership love money.