[DrCaleb]

uwish uwish:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

uwish uwish:

I thought you were a trained observer, go and look at the data yourself, plot it yourself you will likely arrive at a similar conclusion, global warming is a myth. Sorry I am calling you out on this one, from that presentation find ONE THING that isn't valid...

Where does the IPCC admit that? I find no statement by the IPCC like that. And several studies have show that the sun and solar activity has absolutely no effect on the climate that we can observe.

The sun has no influence on climate? wow, sorry but you just dug your own grave, talk about being discredited. Sorry, but everything that spews from your lips from now on means nothing anymore.

Oh, please. You know that was in regards to 'climate change'.

But hey, if you wish to use one little word to ignore overwhelming evidence contrary to your opinion, far be it from me to try to convince you.

[DrCaleb]

But I notice you also didn't try to back up your statement on the IPCCs claims . . .

[N_Fiddledog]

I can get on board with PA #9 if what he is saying is the majority of the ice there that we consider normal today was not there during the Medieval warm period. What I mean is this is not the first time we've lost what we've lost so far. It was just a couple years ago there was a melt revealing a Viking village.

Myself, I'm not sure when or even if there was ever a totally ice free Arctic, however...

$1:

The study in the journal Science estimated that glaciers formed during a 200,000 year period 91 million years ago, creating ice sheets that were perhaps 60 percent the size of the modern Antarctic ice cap.

At the time, tropical surface ocean temperatures in the west Atlantic exceeded a sweltering 35-37 Celsius (95-99F), several degrees warmer than now, and alligators and plantssuch as tropical breadfruit trees flourished in the Arctic.

http://www.reuters.com/article/environm ... 7520080110

As to Ocean acidification, I think what he's talking about are Ocean dead zones.

They've been around forever. There's a theory we're seeing more of them lately as a result of actual pollutants such as fertilizers.

The argument against the idea of the horrors of ocean acidification in general is a lengthy one, but it can boil down to 2 things I think. Oceans have been much warmer and the atmosphere had much more CO2 in the past. Life teamed. Also if you look at all the recent proposed "evidence" (on a case by case basis) of catastrophe as far as the proposal of CO2 "acidifying" the oceans , the problem always seems to turn out to have been caused by something else when enough time and study is applied to it.

As to Doc's "overwhelming evidence"...still waiting to see that.

[uwish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But I notice you also didn't try to back up your statement on the IPCCs claims . . .

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AXhz ... nhofer.png

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Myself, I'm not sure when or even if there was ever a totally ice free Arctic, however...

$1:

The study in the journal Science estimated that glaciers formed during a 200,000 year period 91 million years ago, creating ice sheets that were perhaps 60 percent the size of the modern Antarctic ice cap.

At the time, tropical surface ocean temperatures in the west Atlantic exceeded a sweltering 35-37 Celsius (95-99F), several degrees warmer than now, and alligators and plantssuch as tropical breadfruit trees flourished in the Arctic.

I love it when you whip that one out! 91 million years ago, Greenland was also much nearer the equator.

[DrCaleb]

uwish uwish:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But I notice you also didn't try to back up your statement on the IPCCs claims . . .

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AXhz ... nhofer.png

And like usual, people misquote things out of context or mistranslate them:

His translated statement was:

$1:

"But one must say clearly: We distribute the climate policy de facto the world's wealth. That the owners of coal and oil, which are not excited, is obvious. You have to free ourselves from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has to do with environmental policy, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole to almost nothing."

http://www.nzz.ch/klimapolitik-verteilt ... -1.8373227

[N_Fiddledog]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Myself, I'm not sure when or even if there was ever a totally ice free Arctic, however...

$1:

The study in the journal Science estimated that glaciers formed during a 200,000 year period 91 million years ago, creating ice sheets that were perhaps 60 percent the size of the modern Antarctic ice cap.

At the time, tropical surface ocean temperatures in the west Atlantic exceeded a sweltering 35-37 Celsius (95-99F), several degrees warmer than now, and alligators and plantssuch as tropical breadfruit trees flourished in the Arctic.

I love it when you whip that one out! 91 million years ago, Greenland was also much nearer the equator.

Just an incidental little point of knowledge and of course you zoom in on that as if it was the main point made.

No. The main point was if PA#9 is saying this current melt is nothing new and we saw during the Medeival Warm Period what we're seeing on Greenland today he's correct. More or less. Nothing is ever exact.

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Just an incidental little point of knowledge and of course you zoom in on that as if it was the main point made.

No. The main point was if PA#9 is saying this current melt is nothing new and we saw during the Medeival Warm Period what we're seeing on Greenland today he's correct. More or less. Nothing is ever exact.

No one ever said that the globe wasn't warmer in the past, nor that conditions have been different throughout history than they are now.

The difference now is that we are changing the environment faster than any time that we can tell, and that trends show that even if we stop right now everything we are doing to contribute to that trend, that things will continue to escalate for decades to come. And much of life on Earth may not be able to change fast enough to survive it.

Whether the medieval warm period was warmer or not is moot. Projections are that the climate will easily exceed it in the near future. Spending time theorizing whether life can handle 4000ppm of CO2 is a waste of time, if that life won't be able to stand the temperatures that CO2 level brings with it. So PA9 may have had a point that glaciers in Greenland were much smaller in the past than they were now, but that neglects that sea levels were also higher in that time. Space now occupied with many very large cities around the globe. One effect comes with the other.

I may not have focused on your main point, because we've discussed that main point before. All we ever do is go around and around discussing the minutiae, and not the problem. It gets boring after a while.

[andyt]

can't be that boring. (cough, cough).

What's new to me is this claim:

uwish uwish:

We are cooling not warming.

You could have a go at that.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

can't be that boring. (cough, cough).

What's new to me is this claim:

uwish uwish:

We are cooling not warming.

You could have a go at that.

Well, the Earth is theorized to have been a molten ball of lava at one point. Probably cooler than that now.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

can't be that boring. (cough, cough).

What's new to me is this claim:

uwish uwish:

We are cooling not warming.

You could have a go at that.

No. Too easy. Fiddledog tried that line of argument at one time. The graph he tried to use as proof clearly said something different. Uwish is welcome to his opinion, but it's just that. That would go back to the paper defying the laws of physics where increasing CO2 in the atmosphere somehow isn't causing increased warming in accord with the laws of physics. Reality differs greatly from his opinion.

[Zipperfish]

NSIDC: The Arctic sets yet another record low maximum extent

$1:

BOULDER, Colo, March 28, 2016—Arctic sea ice was at a record low maximum extent for the second straight year, according to scientists at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) and NASA.

“I’ve never seen such a warm, crazy winter in the Arctic,” said NSIDC director Mark Serreze. “The heat was relentless.” Air temperatures over the Arctic Ocean for the months of December, January and February were 2 to 6 degrees Celsius (4 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit) above average in nearly every region.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

can't be that boring. (cough, cough).

What's new to me is this claim:

uwish uwish:

We are cooling not warming.

You could have a go at that.

Well, the Earth is theorized to have been a molten ball of lava at one point. Probably cooler than that now.

Or when the Earth was still forming, and it was being bombarded constantly by meteors and the surface was still molten. I'm sure life can adapt to those conditions once again.

[BartSimpson]

Global warming causes comet impacts and other portents of doom such as chickens losing their feathers and dogs howling late on the fortnight of a full moon.

It must be true because all events are caused by global warming.

[PluggyRug]

One answer to this debate would be to just follow the money.