[sandorski]

Delwin Delwin:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

1 in 1000 is also the number of kids that will get encephalitis as a result of contracting the Measles according to your link. Same odds.

1 in 5000 people who get measles will die, but only 69 deaths from the vaccine in 10 years. Much higher odds of dying from the disease, not the cure.

Not true when you consdider the odds of actually contracting the measles; Canada averages less than 20 cases of measles a year.

....and the reason for this is? Vaccinations!

[DrCaleb]

Delwin Delwin:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Delwin Delwin:

Not really sure how many credible sources you need to be convinced but here is another:

Encephalitis

Encephalitis has been reported in association with administration of measles vaccine in approximately 1 per million doses distributed in North America which is much lower than that observed with natural measles disease (1 per 1,000 cases).

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig ... ug-eng.php

1 in 1000 is also the number of kids that will get encephalitis as a result of contracting the Measles according to your link. Same odds.

1 in 5000 people who get measles will die, but only 69 deaths from the vaccine in 10 years. Much higher odds of dying from the disease, not the cure.

Not true when you consdider the odds of actually contracting the measles; Canada averages less than 20 cases of measles a year.

Yes, true. The odds of contracting the measles decrease when people get vaccinated. Then the odds favour getting sick from the vaccine, not the disease since it is less common. So the odds are (if no one were vaccinated) greater from getting sick and dying of the measles, than they are from adverse reactions (if millions gets vaccinated) from the vaccine.

[stratos]

I find this a great rant for vaccination

http://themetapicture.com/angry-scienti ... -response/

[xerxes]

stratos stratos:

I find this a great rant for vaccination

http://themetapicture.com/angry-scienti ... -response/

A fine rant that.

I like this one:

[Regina]

stratos stratos:

I find this a great rant for vaccination

http://themetapicture.com/angry-scienti ... -response/

Love drunk scientist.

[xerxes]

There's also this from Roald Dahl, written in 1988:

$1:

Measles: A Dangerous Illness
Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it.

Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything.

“Are you feeling all right?” I asked her.

“I feel all sleepy,” she said
.
In an hour, she was unconscious. In 12 hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her.

That was 24 years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles.

I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk.

In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year.

Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

LET THAT SINK IN.

Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles.
So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised?
They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance.

I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation.

So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised.

The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible.

Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was ‘James and the Giant Peach’. That was when she was still alive. The second was ‘The BFG’, dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles.

You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children.

[Tricks]

Delwin Delwin:

Regina Regina:

Delwin Delwin:

While “natural immunity” does tend to be more protective than “vaccine-induced immunity,” the high price of natural immunity is not a risk worth taking when a safe vaccine is available and effective.

Your link had 25 immunizations and side effects. Which ones are more protected by natural immunity?

Who cares ?According to the AAP, my point that natural immunity can be more complete stands regarless of for which diseases this is true. OTI is arguing that natural immunity does not offer more complete protection. Evidently he is full of it.

For Chicken Pox.

[Delwin]

Give it up already, of course getting the disease and fighting it off will prepare your body better than injecting a dead virus. It is a fact and an obvious one:

$1:

t is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Whereas immunity from disease often follows a single natural infection, immunity from vaccines usually occurs only after several doses. However, the difference between vaccination and natural infection is the price paid for immunity.

http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/general-safety-concerns.html

There a a few exceptions like meningitis and tetanus, but not many.


Characterization of pandemic influenza immune memory signature after vaccination or infection


http://m.jci.org/articles/view/74565

[Delwin]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Delwin Delwin:

Ok, now I see where you went wrong, it's your reading comprehension:

1,300 cases in which vaccine-related brain damage has been compensated in court over the past 20 years.

Contracted the disease and recieved money in court are 2 different things.

Ok, so let's look at some real numbers.

Odds are 1 in a million that you'll get Encephalitis from the measles vaccine.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/healthfiles/hfile14a.stm

That makes the odds 0.000099%.

You just made my case stronger.

I am not convinced you know which case you are making. How many MMR vaccinations are required before immunity is achieved?

[Tricks]

Delwin Delwin:

Give it up already, of course getting the disease and fighting it off will prepare your body better than injecting a dead virus. It is a fact and an obvious one:

$1:

t is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Whereas immunity from disease often follows a single natural infection, immunity from vaccines usually occurs only after several doses. However, the difference between vaccination and natural infection is the price paid for immunity.

http://vec.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/general-safety-concerns.html

There a a few exceptions like meningitis and tetanus, but not many.


Characterization of pandemic influenza immune memory signature after vaccination or infection


http://m.jci.org/articles/view/74565

$1:

The price paid for immunity after natural infection might be pneumonia from chickenpox, mental retardation from Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), pneumonia from pneumococcus, birth defects from rubella, liver cancer from hepatitis B virus, or death from measles.

I'll take a slightly less effective immunity thanks.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yes, true. The odds of contracting the measles decrease when people get vaccinated. Then the odds favour getting sick from the vaccine, not the disease since it is less common. So the odds are (if no one were vaccinated) greater from getting sick and dying of the measles, than they are from adverse reactions (if millions gets vaccinated) from the vaccine.

Measles was eradicated in the US prior to the new variant coming in from Latin America with all the kids Obama let into the country in 2014. Prior to this there was more risk to American kids from a needless vaccination than there was from a disease we'd eradicated. Case in point of myself getting the MMR at age 14 and spending a night in the hospital with severe reactions to the vaccination.

The snarky folks who are making fun of people for not having the measles vaccine should immediately run out and get themselves vaccinated for smallpox lest they appear ignorant to their snarky friends.

[peck420]

Bart brings in an excellent point.

We no longer require vaccinations to small pox, because our governments ruthlessly vaccinated as much as possible...to the point that small pox no longer exists outside of labs.

Maybe this is the tactic they should employ for every disease that we are capable of doing so.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Yes, true. The odds of contracting the measles decrease when people get vaccinated. Then the odds favour getting sick from the vaccine, not the disease since it is less common. So the odds are (if no one were vaccinated) greater from getting sick and dying of the measles, than they are from adverse reactions (if millions gets vaccinated) from the vaccine.

Measles was eradicated in the US prior to the new variant coming in from Latin America with all the kids Obama let into the country in 2014. Prior to this there was more risk to American kids from a needless vaccination than there was from a disease we'd eradicated. Case in point of myself getting the MMR at age 14 and spending a night in the hospital with severe reactions to the vaccination.

The snarky folks who are making fun of people for not having the measles vaccine should immediately run out and get themselves vaccinated for smallpox lest they appear ignorant to their snarky friends.

$1:

Post-elimination era

During 2001-2011, 911 measles cases were reported.[22] The median number of measles cases reported per year was 62 (range: 37-220 cases/year). Measles incidence has continuously remained below one case per million since 1997. The majority of measles cases were unvaccinated (65%) or had unknown vaccination status (20%). Of the 911 reported measles cases, 372 (40%) were importations (on average 34 importations/year), 239 (26%) were epidemiologically linked to these importations, 190 (21%) either had virologic evidence of importation or had been linked to those cases with virologic evidence of importation, and 110 (12%) had unknown source. Unknown source cases represent cases where epidemiologic- or virologic-link to an imported case was not detected.

The highest incidence of measles cases in recent years occurred in 2008 (0.48 cases/million) and 2011 (0.72 cases/million). The epidemiology of measles in 2008 was characterized by (1) a high proportion (95%) of cases among U.S. residents who were unvaccinated or who had unknown vaccination status, most of whom were U.S. school-age children whose parents had religious or philosophical objections to vaccination, and (2) more spread from imported cases than other years.[23] In 2011, 220 measles cases were reported, the highest number of reported measles cases since 1996; 80 (36%) were importations, 144 (65%) were unvaccinated, and 47 (21%) had unknown vaccination status. Most of the importations were the result of unvaccinated U.S. travelers who had traveled to measles endemic countries, mainly Western Europe and India.[24]

Although measles elimination has been achieved in the United States, importation of measles will continue to occur as measles remains endemic in many other parts of the world.[23, 25-28] Thus, current measles epidemiology in the United States is determined by characteristics of the imported case and their susceptible contacts.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/surv-m ... asles.html

Measles will always be here, until it's been eliminated everywhere.

Smallpox however has not had a reported case since 1980. When new cases are reported (highly unlikely) then we can start immunizing for it again.

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Measles was eradicated in the US prior to the new variant coming in from Latin America with all the kids Obama let into the country in 2014. Prior to this there was more risk to American kids from a needless vaccination than there was from a disease we'd eradicated. Case in point of myself getting the MMR at age 14 and spending a night in the hospital with severe reactions to the vaccination.

The snarky folks who are making fun of people for not having the measles vaccine should immediately run out and get themselves vaccinated for smallpox lest they appear ignorant to their snarky friends.

Putting politics way out front of science and common sense makes you look quite foolish.

[DrCaleb]

peck420 peck420:

Bart brings in an excellent point.

We no longer require vaccinations to small pox, because our governments ruthlessly vaccinated as much as possible...to the point that small pox no longer exists outside of labs.

Maybe this is the tactic they should employ for every disease that we are capable of doing so.

It's been tried, and it's ongoing with things like Polio. So far, all we've been able to stop is Smallpox.