[BeaverFever]

Delwin Delwin:

Ok, so if we agree that increasing standards will increase food costs and also agree that our ability to access food is directly related to its cost, the question becomes, how many humans would you see go hungry for your happy pigs?

I don't know, how many humans went hungry or without cotton clothing after slavery ended on the plantations?

[Alta_redneck]

Maybe we take the bats away and dress the pig cowboys up as Wolves and scare the pigs to the kill floor.

[Delwin]

Maybe they should just sell them all live at the grocery store. Then people wouldn't have to complain about the people doing the dirty work.

[Thanos]

If some of the people doing the dirty work were following the rules and regulations that have been set out for this industry then there wouldn't be any complaining at all.

[andyt]

Yep. Not from me anyway - I'm willing to make that devil's bargain.

[Zipperfish]

That's it. I signed up with a ranch in the Chilcotin to get my meat from now on. They have everything--even lamb. They slaughter on site. And you can visit any time. The hard part was my better half. But I asked her if she wanted to see the video (or the one that came out a few weeks back, and then she agreed. We're going to cut down our meat content to match the price.

It's always boithered me, to be honest. Now I've done something about it.

I don't mind killing animals to eat. I just don't see the need for cruelty when they're alive. I'm with the Indians on that one.

[Zipperfish]

That's it. I signed up with a ranch in the Chilcotin to get my meat from now on. They have everything--even lamb. They slaughter on site. And you can visit any time. The hard part was my better half. But I asked her if she wanted to see the video (or the one that came out a few weeks back, and then she agreed. We're going to cut down our meat content to match the price.

It's always boithered me, to be honest. Now I've done something about it.

I don't mind killing animals to eat. I just don't see the need for cruelty when they're alive. I'm with the Indians on that one.

[BeaverFever]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

That's it. I signed up with a ranch in the Chilcotin to get my meat from now on. They have everything--even lamb. They slaughter on site. And you can visit any time. The hard part was my better half. But I asked her if she wanted to see the video (or the one that came out a few weeks back, and then she agreed. We're going to cut down our meat content to match the price.

It's always boithered me, to be honest. Now I've done something about it.

I don't mind killing animals to eat. I just don't see the need for cruelty when they're alive. I'm with the Indians on that one.

So good it deserves to be said twice! I'd rep you if these stupid board rules would let me.

[Alta_redneck]

Something that makes my head shake is that pretty well everyone thats posted on this thread agrees with the seal hunt ( I could be wrong, that hasnt been brought for a couple years ) but this bothers them.

[Xort]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

[OMG what don't you understand??? Your question is like asking "if I can't bash children's heads in with a hammer, what am I supposed to bash their heads in with?" You keep asking how you're supposed to force non-ambulatory animals to walk....the answer is you're not supposed to force non-ambulatory animals to walk. Do you get it?

So your solution to a pig not moving is to leave it to do it's own thing.

Was that so hard to say?

$1:

It's not "dragged around" (there you go again with your straw men), there is a cart specifically for moving non-ambulatory hogs.

I'm not sure if someone pushing a cart or is pulling a cart is really important.

$1:

2) Healthy pigs that refuse to walk are the result of poor handling and poor design of the handling area. Handle the pig properly and you won't have a problem.

You handle the pig perfectly but it still doesn't move. You say get the vet then stun the animal put it on a cart and the push (not pull) it to where it gets chopped up?

$1:

I mean come on, why do you think beating animals to get them to move is against the law and company policy, if you think it's so necessary?

A line between beating an animal and hitting it to get it to move. You seem unwilling to accept a gradient scale of force between the two.

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

OMG what don't you understand??? Your question is like asking "if I can't bash children's heads in with a hammer, what am I supposed to bash their heads in with?" You keep asking how you're supposed to force non-ambulatory animals to walk....the answer is you're not supposed to force non-ambulatory animals to walk. Do you get it?

1) As you can see, if an animal comes off the truck and can't/won't walk, the on-site vet is supposed to look at it first. THEN if it still can't move under its own power, it's to be stunned. It's not "dragged around" (there you go again with your straw men), there is a cart specifically for moving non-ambulatory hogs.

2) Healthy pigs that refuse to walk are the result of poor handling and poor design of the handling area. Handle the pig properly and you won't have a problem.

I mean come on, why do you think beating animals to get them to move is against the law and company policy, if you think it's so necessary?

I doubt there'd be as much objection to an employee with a bolt-gun, or even a handgun, on the loading dock being assigned to immediately kill an immobilized animal that's coming off the truck in an injured state. Certainly be less offensive on every conceivable moral level to some asshole repeatedly kicking it, beating it with a club, or running into it with the forks on a forklift in some hair-brained attempt to pick it up.

Kind of shaking my head in genuine puzzlement that there's anyone out there that can't see how obvious this is.

I know you mean well, but that is a really really bad idea. There is a reason that the kill chutes are very far away from the loading docks, and that comes down to one word. "Stampede". If some guy jumps into a crowd of animals and kills one, the rest will freak out. They don't care that there are metal bars up ahead, they will try to push the front of the pack through the metal bars. It would be a cluster fuck.

The regulations BF posted are for a reason, you deal with the downed animal long after the others have left the area. Less panic, less carnage.

Delwin Delwin:

So you are arguing that a pig that gets the shit kicked out of it is less nutritious?

Animals that exhibit injury are always deemed unfit for human consumption. Grade A vs Utility grade fowl, A vs F grade Beef . . .and the really bad stuff like the pig I described earlier goes on the pile deemed 'dog food', it'll be shipped to a rendering plant along with the bones and organs of the others.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Here's an article I recall from over 10 years ago. I remember it because I happened to be reading a book by this author at time (who is an Anglican priest) about the pagan roots of Christianity.

$1:

In the matter of religious killing, where no stunning or gassing first occurs, we know the butchers are supposed to be the best available — with special
mechanical devices to hold the throat of the animal completely open to the
slice of the near-decapitating knife.

But, there is a tremendous amount of hidden anguish and suffering going on
that the public never sees or knows.

. . .

I will honestly never forget the look of fear and betrayal of the cattle I saw being herded and prodded into the killing chute. I can never forget the screaming of pigs being electrically prodded up their ramp of death at a site in downtown Toronto. You could tell they knew their fate was sealed. They died in panic.

That needed to be said again.

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Here's an article I recall from over 10 years ago. I remember it because I happened to be reading a book by this author at time (who is an Anglican priest) about the pagan roots of Christianity.

$1:

In the matter of religious killing, where no stunning or gassing first occurs, we know the butchers are supposed to be the best available — with special
mechanical devices to hold the throat of the animal completely open to the
slice of the near-decapitating knife.

But, there is a tremendous amount of hidden anguish and suffering going on
that the public never sees or knows.

. . .

I will honestly never forget the look of fear and betrayal of the cattle I saw being herded and prodded into the killing chute. I can never forget the screaming of pigs being electrically prodded up their ramp of death at a site in downtown Toronto. You could tell they knew their fate was sealed. They died in panic.

That needed to be said again.

Just a FYI for people that have never picked up a pig in your lives, non pet pigs go into uncontrollable screaming just picking it up to give it a hug and a kiss.

Remember the good Dr. said prodding within reason was ok to use. I can go down to the Co-op Agria store, can't buy a gun but I can buy 7 different types of stock prods, their not illegal.

Friday night bush parties when we were in high school were fun, but the fun really began when the cattle prod sword fights broke out. And if you really were serious, you grabbed a whip or 2 to go along with them. The whip was more of an intimidation tool and not really use. Every farm boy that was there and worked cattle at one of each behind the seat in their truck. Stock prods will give you a buzz but are a long ways from being a tazer.

[wildrosegirl]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

That's it. I signed up with a ranch in the Chilcotin to get my meat from now on. They have everything--even lamb. They slaughter on site. And you can visit any time. The hard part was my better half. But I asked her if she wanted to see the video (or the one that came out a few weeks back, and then she agreed. We're going to cut down our meat content to match the price.

It's always boithered me, to be honest. Now I've done something about it.

I don't mind killing animals to eat. I just don't see the need for cruelty when they're alive. I'm with the Indians on that one.

You and your better half are AWESOME!!

Now you just have to spread the word and see if you can convince some of your friends and family to do the same.

[wildrosegirl]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Something that makes my head shake is that pretty well everyone thats posted on this thread agrees with the seal hunt ( I could be wrong, that hasnt been brought for a couple years ) but this bothers them.

Don't agree with that at all, nope.
You want seal meat, kill the poor thing with a .22. Instant death - enjoy. Suffering involved - go to hell.