[andyt]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

To demonstrate how utterly ridiculous our legal system is when dealing with criminal garbage, allow me to relate what happened to my sister and her family some years ago.
They had gone out for the evening when some jagoff decided to B&E their home. Despite the clear and numerous signs saying "Beware of dog", genius boy decided to go for it anyway and surprise surprise, the dog fucked him up pretty good. Now while neither my sister nor her husband were criminally charged, the little pussy who broke in successfully sued them for the injuries he sustained while being a criminal douchebag.

Has nothing to do with criminal garbage, just our out of control civil justice system. Way worse down in the states. In New Zealand, while I was there, prisoners who broke their legs during an escape attempt successfully sued for workers comp. Maybe it's the entire English based system that's crazy here, don't know if it happens in non-common law countries as well.

[commanderkai]

andyt andyt:

You are mistaken:

$1:

The audio, which was played several times in court, captured the sound of glass shattering, Brady descending the basement stairs and Smith shooting Brady three times. Smith can be heard saying, “You’re dead.” Prosecutors said Smith put Brady’s body on a tarp and dragged him into another room, then sat down, reloaded his weapon and waited.

YOu think he hid his truck, set up the 'deerstand' in the basement, then went upstairs to sleep? He's crazy, not stupid.

You're right, I was. Got the names confused. So...Brady breaks in, goes into the basement (almost immediately, I might add. He probably knows where the valuables are kept through previous break ins), and gets shot for his trouble. Smith shoots the first burglar 3 times, and I assume killing him almost immediately. He then defiantly states that "You're dead!". A bit twisted, sure, but it's still his home, and like I said, he could have left all the doors unlocked, the windows opened, with big signs bragging about the amount of valuables he has inside on his front yard and that does not excuse the break in.

In my opinion, the second thief is where he goes into premeditated murder. She follows the first one (and I'm surprised that she didn't hear the gunshots. I'm not sure if you ever actually heard a pistol being fired indoors, but it's fucking loud), into the basement, where she also gets shot. However, she survives the initial shot(s), which then he mocks her (not illegal) and then executes her (highly illegal, and what I view as the premeditated murder in this case).

Again, moving his car further from his home is not exactly an invitation to have your home broken into. If, hypothetically, his car was in the shop, and this happened, would this be more legal? Nope, because he still executed one of them after she was not a threat to his life or property.

[commanderkai]

Gunnair Gunnair:

This is one of those proportional blaming of the victims. Fact is the kids fucked up and carried out a criminal act. The convicted murderer did not use proportional force to defend himself....in fact, it appears it was successfully argued that he was not defending himself at all.

He murdered them plain and simple and there are a bunch here wetting themselves in excitement over it.

If people are quite happy that a well armed person facing a minimal threat can kill with impunity, then we really should be executing a lot more people for low lever crimes.

Again, how would he have known they were a "minimal threat", considering this would be the only time he directly confronted the thieves? How would Smith know if they had a weapon or not before his initial shots? They're already carrying out a criminal act, and he did defend his property...up until the execution of the second thief.

The whole tarp thing is iffy too, I'll admit. I wouldn't have enjoyed being the defense council, but, the moment the intruder broke into his home, they were a threat. He staged his home to be more tempting to steal from, but like I said, there is no excuse for them to break into his home. None. Parking his truck further away, and leaving the lights off does not give them the right to break into his home, much like dressing in revealing clothes is not an invitation to rape.

There is no conceivable way Smith would have known if Brady was armed or not during the break in until after his shots. The second thief is even more concerning, is that, even AFTER the initial shots, she follows him into the basement. Now, I think (don't really have profiles of CKA members here lol) that you were in the Canadian Forces, so, I think you know that gunshots are quite loud, especially when indoors. Even after the initial gunshots, she follows the first thief into the basement, where Smith shoots her too. She survives, and Smith then executes her, after she was completely neutralized as a threat. By this point, there was no threat to his life as he could tell both burglars were unarmed, and she certainly wasn't going anywhere. But, instead of calling 911 and reporting the crime, he decided to execute the female burglar. That was far beyond any rational self defense/Castle Doctrine claim he could have made.

[Public_Domain]

[Public_Domain]

[saturn_656]

Public_Domain Public_Domain:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

No, it's more like even if you say the two kids took their chances and woke the dragon, unfortunately in this world there are consequences. Very well, would there not also be consequences for Byron? He should spend the rest of his life in jail, and good riddance. His property should be given to the families of the victims.

Holy shit!

What better way to honour the cousins than to steal everything they couldn't.

[desertdude]

C.Kai dude what are you on about man ? Last time I said you needed English comprehension lessons I was only half serious, but the way you've been jumping around here and there in this thread I think its pretty much required now you take the afore mentioned lessons.

A man sets up a trap waits for his "prey" to walk into that trap and when it does, springs it and then makes sure his prey is dead. How in the world is that action not premeditated. He wasn't sitting in his basement with two guns ready for self defense or to deter the thieves. He was out for blood. Even if he hadn't killed any of his victims and as you put it "neutralized" them he would have/should have been prosecuted for two counts of attempted murder. He did not walk onto a break in and in confusion or self defense shot some one. That would have been a different story and how you can confuse the two is beyond me.

[Benn]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Thanos Thanos:

As opposed to Bonnie & Clyde/Charlie & Caril-Anne/Sid & Nancy/ Billy-Joe & Bobbi-Sue, it appears (considering that he was permitted to work security at diplomatic houses) that Smith didn't have a criminal record prior to the shootings. Maybe it's a case of a guy waiting to explode but then again it's also just as likely as "the two young lovers with nothing better to do" simply had bad luck in who they chose as their next victim.

You guys can call me an asshole all you want. I don't see it written down anywhere that Smith was obligated to sit back and take it, like him filing a burglary report with the police and his insurance company after the fact makes everything A-OK. A couple of tweakers/pill-heads on a spree of their own were the ones who set this entire sequence of events into motion. Once again, they choose NOT to behave that way and they don't end up on a metal tray in the county morgue. Leave him alone and don't break into his house and, with no prior criminal record evident, there's more than enough reason to believe that Smith keeps to himself until his time on earth is over. Seriously, there's better people out there to feel sorry for than a couple of high school rebels who finally pushed their luck too far.

Couple of dumb kids doing a B&E. Dumb...unarmed...dumb...but unarmed.

Not armed.

They type of thing you spend some time in juvie for as a wake up call.

This guy set it up to execute them and you are happy as a pig in shit over that, so the next time you shed crocodile tears over the next school shoot or some other kid getting offed by some psycho, we'll know it's either drunk Thanos, bi-polar Thanos on the downward slide, or secretly NRA touch yourself silly Thanos giddy over the thought of a couple of stupid teens executed...executed mind, in cold blood.

Won't waste time trying to decide which Thanos is it, he'll just be hypocrite Thanos.

The premise of stand your ground is something I agree with but this situation points out the problem in allowing it. There is still a thing called excessive force and the average person on the street does not know how to legally apply justified level of force. Obviously firing blindly into a garage or hiding in the shadows and shooting unarmed kids is excessive.

I'm sure if this guy yelled from around the corner he was home, and armed, they would have taken off. Or called the cops then confronted them with the gun and held them for the cops they would have stayed, pissed their preppy pants but stayed. It would be different if they even just ran at the guy and he said he feared they were armed then shot them. Once shot a call (second call as he should have called already) to 911 for an ambulance is in order. Heck enemy medics in war often give the enemy who is injured they come by attention.

The average person does not know how to not cross the line in defending themselves with a weapon, most don't know how to use a weapon properly anyhow. These kids were guilty of being dumb shit rats but if the fair punishment for B and E was death it would be written into law that way.

This was murder plain and simple. Everyone there that night made bad choices and everyone paid for them.

Our right to defend ourselves is already written into law and for the most part works. A blanket kill all, oops I meant catch all, law that allows open season is just a black hole we should not go down.

[desertdude]

Yeah but try telling those shits who think he did the world a favor by killing two petty criminals.

[OnTheIce]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Secondly, this was not one of those stories. He set it up to execute these two for a B&E. Not neutralize, as has been pointed out. Not detain... As had been pointed out. Execute.

When they're on the ground with a bullet or two already in them, and he finishes them off? Yeah, sick fuckheads touch themselves as they glad hand that kind of cold blooded execution.

And too bad for them. He set up to kill the next sorry SOB that decided to break into his home and threaten his safety. I just wish he did it more discrete.

[Gunnair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Secondly, this was not one of those stories. He set it up to execute these two for a B&E. Not neutralize, as has been pointed out. Not detain... As had been pointed out. Execute.

When they're on the ground with a bullet or two already in them, and he finishes them off? Yeah, sick fuckheads touch themselves as they glad hand that kind of cold blooded execution.

And too bad for them. He set up to kill the next sorry SOB that decided to break into his home and threaten his safety. I just wish he did it more discrete.

Well, his safety was not threatened. His wallet or his flat screen tv maybe, but these kids didn't come in to lay a beating on him.

The courts clearly saw that.

[herbie]

Just thought I'd post something from Today on Wiki:

$1:

1994 – American teenager Michael P. Fay was caned in Singapore for theft and vandalism, a punishment that the United States deemed to be excessive for a teenager committing a non-violent crime.

[saturn_656]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well, his safety was not threatened. His wallet or his flat screen tv maybe

I tell you Gunny anybody breaks in my house for my flat screen they're falling down my stairs. I don't care if I have to drag 'em to the edge and push 'em over.



There are three things that you never screw with. A man's wife, a man's ride, and a man's livin' room theatre sized flat screen.

Here's a helpful tip to avoid getting your nice stuff stolen by criminals or "good kids making mistakes".

[commanderkai]

desertdude desertdude:

C.Kai dude what are you on about man ? Last time I said you needed English comprehension lessons I was only half serious, but the way you've been jumping around here and there in this thread I think its pretty much required now you take the afore mentioned lessons.

I'm just going to ignore your pathetic attempt to troll me. Please, you're not one to talk.

$1:

A man sets up a trap waits for his "prey" to walk into that trap and when it does, springs it and then makes sure his prey is dead.

It's his home. He could of left the front door unlocked, and all the windows open, and it would have never given those two any excuse to break into his home. He had suspicions about who it might be, but Smith didn't go out and hunt down who he suspected was the thieves.

$1:

How in the world is that action not premeditated. He wasn't sitting in his basement with two guns ready for self defense or to deter the thieves. He was out for blood. Even if he hadn't killed any of his victims and as you put it "neutralized" them he would have/should have been prosecuted for two counts of attempted murder.

Except he wouldn't have been, since he would be protecting his home and life with reasonable force in preventing a felony in his home. To quote the law in Minnesota:

"The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode."

Realistically, Smith would have absolutely no way to know if said burglars would have been armed or not. We know now, in hindsight, but at the moment, he wouldn't have.

$1:

He did not walk onto a break in and in confusion or self defense shot some one. That would have been a different story and how you can confuse the two is beyond me.

What are you talking about now? It's his home, those two broke in. Pretty simple story here. The reason why he is guilty is because he executed the second burglar after she was initially shot and survived. (The first burglar seemed to be killed in the initial shots against him).

Basically, the setting of the "trap" is a big load of nothing, since, well, it's his own home. He would have been in that basement until he died of starvation without those two individuals breaking into his home. The moment they did break into his home, he had a legitimate need to protect his home, even if he waited for them to come to him, instead of him going to them.

Hypothetically, if he left his "deer stand" and went to bed, and those two broke in soon after, and he shot them both (without the execution) by waiting for them to come up the stairs or enter his bedroom, is that more legitimate?

The reason why, in my opinion, that he is guilty of premeditated murder is not for the "trap", but because he executed a person (possibly both) when he was not under any sort of threat after the initial, neutralizing shots. He could easily see they're unarmed. They're not going anywhere. He decided to execute them both in cold blood instead of calling 911. That was the premeditated murder.

[desertdude]

Right, jump through all sort of hoops to justify it. Just hope you don't try this in and expect to be given a free pass because you were using "reasonable" force or you could be calling a cell your home for a very period of time.

Glad to know that you're twisted enough to think its okay to trap and shoot people just because they want your DVD player.