[sandorski]

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US. This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity. Given the demographics of the US, it is also clear that the Majority will see this "cross" as a familiar symbol and, for the most part, support its' inclusion. However, that is moot given the Law and Constitution.

This, like the XMas symbols on Public Land issue, is an issue about Government neutrality on the subject. To achieve such a thing the Government must give All the opportunity to be represented or give no one the expression of their Personal Belief. Is it not enough that on that fateful day the neighbours of many Americans died senselessly? Is it not enough that fellow Human Beings died senselessly? Do we absolutely need to also foist upon that tragedy a symbolism that by default ignores much of that tragedy?

[Count_Lothian]

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US.

Only if you ignore the events that took place that warranted this piece of rubble to be made into a monument.

$1:

This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity.

again only if you ignore what it was for so many fire fighters who saw it as a sign of hope rising out the rubble.
they were grieving and this gave them hope.

$1:

Given the demographics of the US, it is also clear that the Majority will see this "cross" as a familiar symbol and, for the most part, support its' inclusion. However, that is moot given the Law and Constitution.

Sometimes a law is an ass in the hands of people who cannot see the value in this particular piece of rubble.

Even for non religious people these symbols have an effect , a positive effect.
Religious symbols have a positive effect on the psyche of people.

$1:

This, like the XMas symbols on Public Land issue, is an issue about Government neutrality on the subject.

So you don't like the festive lighting of Parliament and the festive decorations they put up.

there was this Islamic person in my mothers apartment went ballistic because they were handing out Halloween candy to kids in the lobby.

i guess you would back her on that as well.

$1:

To achieve such a thing the Government must give All the opportunity to be represented or give no one the expression of their Personal Belief.

It's about a specific piece of rubble that appeared to rise out of the chaos and give relief to some.
That moment gave so much to so many . thats the only thing that is out front about this particular piece of rubble.

$1:

Is it not enough that on that fateful day the neighbours of many Americans died senselessly? Is it not enough that fellow Human Beings died senselessly?

I'm confused as to why this monument interferes with your understanding of that day and the tragedy it wrought .
It's not enough, what do you mean it's not enough.

$1:

Do we absolutely need to also foist upon that tragedy a symbolism that by default ignores much of that tragedy?

By default, your default, not the symbols default.
The symbol annoys you?
You don't like the symbol, so you lay blame to those it comforted?
It's absurd if you want people to believe the symbol does not mean anything much to you and yet it invokes a sort of rage.

Why the rage, to something that reminds everyone of the fact, a piece of that tragedy could become a living piece of art.

It's now living art in the minds of those that lived through the tragedy and combed through the rubble looking for survivors and then pieces of DNA.

Why not say whats really annoying about this instead of trying to make it an interpretative legal issue.

it's the cross and Christianity eh.

Chritianity is a good thing and does a lot of good.
Like the happen chance of that piece of rubble reaching into the psyche of a damaged people.

[peck420]

I am starting to like where this is going!

Granted, I will be saddened when the monument/memorial is closed...

[DanSC]

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US. This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity.

We Americans also have a public holiday set aside for Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., a known Christian. As of yet, no public holidays have been given to an individual immediately identifiable as a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Wiccian, Pastafarian, or a member of any other specific religion. We actually just built a monument to him in our Capital. It's a shame we'll have to tear it down so soon.

[ShepherdsDog]

Arlington should be plowed under too......that damned Argonne Cross is so offensive, as are all the crosses on the headstones

[PluggyRug]

I'm far from being a religious person, but to me it's a symbol of all who needlessly died there. The fact that it's shaped like a cross is (to me) irrelevant.

[martin14]

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US. This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity. Given the demographics of the US, it is also clear that the Majority will see this "cross" as a familiar symbol and, for the most part, support its' inclusion. However, that is moot given the Law and Constitution.

This, like the XMas symbols on Public Land issue, is an issue about Government neutrality on the subject. To achieve such a thing the Government must give All the opportunity to be represented or give no one the expression of their Personal Belief. Is it not enough that on that fateful day the neighbours of many Americans died senselessly? Is it not enough that fellow Human Beings died senselessly? Do we absolutely need to also foist upon that tragedy a symbolism that by default ignores much of that tragedy?

Very nice copy/pasta.

Fail !

[ShepherdsDog]

he must be a real joy at Remembrance Day ceremonies

[Jabberwalker]

This is the memorial in Halifax to those Canadian servicemen and women who died at sea during WWI and WWII. It is clearly a Christian cross. Don't like it?

Bite me.

[Jabberwalker]

This is the Canadian memorial at St. Julian in Flanders, which was the site of the first use of WMDs in history ... used against Canadian, French Colonial and British troops. It is cruciform in shape and is arguably a cross. It looks pretty clear to me that the sculptor had the Christian Cross in mind. It is also a profoundly moving memorial. If you can't see beyond that, well ...

[Count_Lothian]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

he must be a real joy at Remembrance Day ceremonies

fuck that made me lol..


I saw him telling kids at the Mall last christmas that Santa was not real and was just some exploitive lie your parents use to get you to eat broccoli

[sandorski]

martin14 martin14:

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US. This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity. Given the demographics of the US, it is also clear that the Majority will see this "cross" as a familiar symbol and, for the most part, support its' inclusion. However, that is moot given the Law and Constitution.

This, like the XMas symbols on Public Land issue, is an issue about Government neutrality on the subject. To achieve such a thing the Government must give All the opportunity to be represented or give no one the expression of their Personal Belief. Is it not enough that on that fateful day the neighbours of many Americans died senselessly? Is it not enough that fellow Human Beings died senselessly? Do we absolutely need to also foist upon that tragedy a symbolism that by default ignores much of that tragedy?

Very nice copy/pasta.

Fail !

Prove it.

[sandorski]

DanSC DanSC:

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US. This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity.

We Americans also have a public holiday set aside for Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., a known Christian. As of yet, no public holidays have been given to an individual immediately identifiable as a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, Wiccian, Pastafarian, or a member of any other specific religion. We actually just built a monument to him in our Capital. It's a shame we'll have to tear it down so soon.

Not the same thing at all and if you really thought about it I am sure you would see it.

[sandorski]

Count_Lothian Count_Lothian:

sandorski sandorski:

This all goes back to the Separation of Church and State principle at the very founding of the US.

Only if you ignore the events that took place that warranted this piece of rubble to be made into a monument.

$1:

This, as a Public Monument, is a clear endorsement of Christianity.

again only if you ignore what it was for so many fire fighters who saw it as a sign of hope rising out the rubble.
they were grieving and this gave them hope.

$1:

Given the demographics of the US, it is also clear that the Majority will see this "cross" as a familiar symbol and, for the most part, support its' inclusion. However, that is moot given the Law and Constitution.

Sometimes a law is an ass in the hands of people who cannot see the value in this particular piece of rubble.

Even for non religious people these symbols have an effect , a positive effect.
Religious symbols have a positive effect on the psyche of people.

$1:

This, like the XMas symbols on Public Land issue, is an issue about Government neutrality on the subject.

So you don't like the festive lighting of Parliament and the festive decorations they put up.

there was this Islamic person in my mothers apartment went ballistic because they were handing out Halloween candy to kids in the lobby.

i guess you would back her on that as well.

$1:

To achieve such a thing the Government must give All the opportunity to be represented or give no one the expression of their Personal Belief.

It's about a specific piece of rubble that appeared to rise out of the chaos and give relief to some.
That moment gave so much to so many . thats the only thing that is out front about this particular piece of rubble.

$1:

Is it not enough that on that fateful day the neighbours of many Americans died senselessly? Is it not enough that fellow Human Beings died senselessly?

I'm confused as to why this monument interferes with your understanding of that day and the tragedy it wrought .
It's not enough, what do you mean it's not enough.

$1:

Do we absolutely need to also foist upon that tragedy a symbolism that by default ignores much of that tragedy?

By default, your default, not the symbols default.
The symbol annoys you?
You don't like the symbol, so you lay blame to those it comforted?
It's absurd if you want people to believe the symbol does not mean anything much to you and yet it invokes a sort of rage.

Why the rage, to something that reminds everyone of the fact, a piece of that tragedy could become a living piece of art.

It's now living art in the minds of those that lived through the tragedy and combed through the rubble looking for survivors and then pieces of DNA.

Why not say whats really annoying about this instead of trying to make it an interpretative legal issue.

it's the cross and Christianity eh.

Chritianity is a good thing and does a lot of good.
Like the happen chance of that piece of rubble reaching into the psyche of a damaged people.

It does not matter who started it and I don't blame them for it either. This is simply the representation of it and the exclusivity therein. It's also not about "rage", it's about Law and Equal Representation. I don't know how many times I have to repeat that point before you even acknowledge it.

I disagree that "Christianity is a good thing", but that's another issue.

[ShepherdsDog]

fLail